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Verizon Wireless Confirms $350 ETF for Premium Devices

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Verizon Blows

coldsmoke

Nov 5, 2009, 12:36 AM
Need I say more? They're out of their freakin minds.
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Menno

Nov 5, 2009, 12:55 AM
So.. for the less than 5% of customers who terminate their contracts early, (the only ones effected by this) this makes verizon blow?

Perhaps if consumers would stop trying to get everything for free so they can make a profit, such changes wouldn't be needed.

Just like hard data caps on aircards, required data on smartphones, and now higher ETF's, a few idiots ruin it for everyone.

But even with these higher prices, an overwhelming majority of customers will never even have to consider ETFs (because most people assume the two year contract is a two year contract and they are happy with it).

For the people who are affected by it, the only people this REALLY hurts are people trying to flip phones on ebay for a profit. Seriously 1...
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bluecoyote

Nov 5, 2009, 1:04 AM
Let's be honest, Verizon is just over-subsidizing their new handsets to bring the price down to compete with a more popular handset so they can advertise it has a higher megapixel camera, etc. for the same price even if it isn't as nice of a phone.

Then Verizon is screwing them over by gouging them up the arse when I don't know... say next summer the successor to that really popular phone on the other carrier is released and the current smartphone they bought from Verizon has been neglected by the development community and isn't nearly as compatible with all of those "cool apps" advertised.
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Menno

Nov 5, 2009, 1:12 AM
all their phones are sub 200 because that is the price point consumers expect to pay for smartphones.

The retail on an iphone is nearly that of the retail of a tour/Droid (or other att smartphones for that matter) so where do you get "over subsidizing?"

that "sucessor to that really popular phone?" you mean when it gains the ability to not drop 30% of calls in NY?

As innovative as the iphone is, and as amazing device as it is, it hasn't changed a whole lot since the initial release. The 3gs added just features that every other basic phones had for years, not some "super cool innovation."

One of the reasons I want the Droid to do well is I'm hoping it kicks apple into innovating again instead of resting on their laurels. the m...
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bluecoyote

Nov 5, 2009, 1:17 AM
So Apple didn't innovate by speeding up the internals while improving battery life? What about the new copy/paste feature that blows the socks off of every other phone out there in terms of usability (not hyperbole, it's actually pretty damn impressive.)

Checklist features are not innovation- never have been, never will be. Verizon Wireless had a shot at innovation with the Palm Pre, but they passed on that ship, too.
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Menno

Nov 5, 2009, 1:21 AM
copy paste is not impressive, it is a standard smartphone feature. Yes, they made some improvements to the UI, but this is tweaking, not innovation

Sped up internals/improved battery are tweaks, not innovations.

That's like Advil saying that they have an innovative new drug because it is 25% larger.

Faster processor, better battery, and improved copy paste are checklist features.

Verizon didn't pass on the pre.
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bluecoyote

Nov 5, 2009, 1:24 AM
"copy paste is not impressive, it is a standard smartphone feature."

Maybe you should try comparing copy/paste on the iPhone to copy/paste on something like a Blackberry or Pre.

That's like saying MobileSafari is not impressive because Pocket IE has been out for ages.
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Menno

Nov 5, 2009, 1:31 AM
no, safari was innovative when it came out because of how it rendered web pages. it is still the best mobile browser imo. Android is getting closer (html5 support, higher resolutions for better screens, flash support in a few months). For desktops, I actually prefer Chrome, but I know a lot of people that swear by firefox/opera/safari and that's great for them.

There is no "best for everyone" browser, or phone, or carrier. Anyone who says otherwise is lying.

copy paste on the iphone is like their "clipping" feature they made for dashboard on their desktops. It's really cool, but at the end of the day it's still a checklist feature.

I'm talking about innovative like the ipod was innovative. There were mp3 players before, but th...
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Overmann

Nov 5, 2009, 10:41 AM
The new Opera browser, even though in Beta, is very impressive as well in operation. Also, Safari (and iPhone in general) are missing two big features.

1: DOWNLOADING FILES TO YOUR MEMORY!
2: Flash Player

When Apple finally supports feature 1, I MIGHT consider an iPhone. Although I will probably wait for a Snapdragon phone with Windows on it, just because I can actually customize the phone without hacking the ROM.
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asLeepLessman

Nov 5, 2009, 2:01 PM
I wasn't going to say anything on here but I'm happy to see I'm not the only one with a different view. I also like Opera. I don't think Safari is all that great and for the record, the iPhone is missing a lot more then 2 things.

You would consider a iPhone if you could download files to your memory? and then what? its a internal memory. You cant exactly take it out and put it into a different phone.

Something great about Windows Mobile and Android phones is the Open Source Market. Third party App. The same type of Apps you can download on the iPhone but for FREE with Windows Mobile and Android.

Skip the "thought" of the iPhone and just wait for the SnapDragon. You'll save time in the end.
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Overmann

Nov 6, 2009, 10:36 AM
Obviously syncing files back to your PC is a necessary secondary feature. Otherwise, downloading to the memory is pointless.

If LG would make a Verizon Windows phone...
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VZW_insider

Nov 5, 2009, 8:23 PM
"Then Verizon is screwing them over by gouging them up the arse when I don't know... say next summer the successor to that really popular phone on the other carrier is released and the current smartphone they bought from Verizon has been neglected by the development community and isn't nearly as compatible with all of those "cool apps" advertised."

- Do you really think that Android and Google are going to go by the wayside in a year's time? All Google needed to do was get a major carrier to back their product. Apple makes a solid product, I love their computers. Google makes a solid product as well. The big difference is Google everything is FREE. The development community is all about Google. Apple needs to get back to the drawing board...
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sugarb85

Nov 6, 2009, 5:57 PM
Wow...you must really, really, really love the iPhone. It'll be funny if/when AT&T does the same thing w/their ETFs. Shoot, the way the two carriers compete it is only a matter of time.
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asLeepLessman

Nov 5, 2009, 10:34 AM
Menno said:
Just like hard data caps on aircards, required data on smartphones, and now higher ETF's, a few idiots ruin it for everyone.


1st of all, I want to agree with you. I also want to say that this is one of the few vaild statements made in this whole topic (not just this thread).

2nd, I want to ask, does that make Verizon a Idiot? You said "a few idiots" ruin it for everyone? Now that Verizon has done this, if or when the other companies follow suit, would that not make Verizon the Idiot who caused it on a National level?

Anyway, here it is again for those of you who still dont get it........😛

Menno said:
Just like hard data caps on aircards, required data on smartphone
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Menno

Nov 5, 2009, 1:00 PM
If people used ETFs like they were intended (leaving for another carrier) there would be no issue. the problem was people flipping phones for profit.
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Azeron

Nov 5, 2009, 3:04 PM
I'm not upset that enterprising individuals abused the system for so long. I am also not upset with Verizon for slamming the door on them.
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nikg

Nov 5, 2009, 3:11 PM
Azeron said:
I'm not upset that enterprising individuals abused the system for so long. I am also not upset with Verizon for slamming the door on them.
Amen.
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jskrenes

Nov 5, 2009, 10:51 AM
What I don't get is that VZW haters accuse Big Red of trying to lure people away from the iPhone by slick marketing (as if Apple doesn't take part in slick marketing), and then sock you with a hefty ETF. What about the worry free guarantee? 30 days to try out your phone before you're locked into contract. Most of my customers know whether or not a phone is for them within the first week or two. If you're not putting your phone through its paces that heavily in the first 30 days, first, that's your own fault for not taking advantage of your trial, and second, what's the likelihood that later on you'll want a different phone?

I don't see a big deal on this. Assurion just bumped their rates on advanced devices (of course some phone users wou...
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Versed

Nov 5, 2009, 10:52 AM
Menno said:
So.. for the less than 5% of customers who terminate their contracts early, (the only ones effected by this) this makes verizon blow?

Perhaps if consumers would stop trying to get everything for free so they can make a profit, such changes wouldn't be needed.

Just like hard data caps on aircards, required data on smartphones, and now higher ETF's, a few idiots ruin it for everyone.

But even with these higher prices, an overwhelming majority of customers will never even have to consider ETFs (because most people assume the two year contract is a two year contract and they are happy with it).

For the people who are affected by it, the only people this REALLY hurts are people trying to flip phones on
...
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Menno

Nov 5, 2009, 12:08 PM
how is an etf greedy? do you SERIOUSLY think a company wants to collect it?
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asLeepLessman

Nov 5, 2009, 1:46 PM
He might have added "greedy" from his own discomfort, however, the rest of the statement is true.

I don't think they are greedy. I think they are simply trying to recover some of the losses.

However, because of this, I do believe the other companies will follow suit. Which makes the rest of his statement, "greedy" aside, a valid point. In my opinion that is.
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Versed

Nov 5, 2009, 3:11 PM
Menno said:
how is an etf greedy? do you SERIOUSLY think a company wants to collect it?


No, I don't, they just want to make sure nobody leaves. And this is wrong. I said in this conversation, I'm not against the reasonable charge of $175.00 but this is extreme, and I would be bitching the same if it was any of the carriers. Yes these phones cost more, but they are also charging more for them. They are also making a decent profit on the data they charge for them.
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nikg

Nov 5, 2009, 3:22 PM
Versed said:
Yes these phones cost more, but they are also charging more for them. They are also making a decent profit on the data they charge for them.


Which is why they only make the subsidy back if you STAY with them, hence the ETF. High end phones have always cost at least $500, so for you to say that they are charging more now is baseless. I just don't get the feeling that you understand that these types of devices have essentially more capability than computers plus they are built on a small scale, and this makes them EXPENSIVE.
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Versed

Nov 5, 2009, 3:30 PM
They retail for that much, their cost is somewhat less. They are also charging $300 and hope you don't send for their dumb assed rebate visa card. Even at that $175 plus $200 (will will do a give in on the rebate( is $375 and I bet that is not far from what any of the carriers pay for a high end smart phone, iphone maybe the exception.
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Azeron

Nov 5, 2009, 4:27 PM
...should be your carrier and phone then. It is a free country. Vote with you wallet and your feet. I wouldn't stick with a carrier which blows.
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Versed

Nov 5, 2009, 4:31 PM
Sure and I can as well as others complain to the government who already have their eye's on the carries crap. Even if it does upset you fanboi's.
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Azeron

Nov 5, 2009, 4:36 PM
If disagreeing with you makes me a fanboy, so be it. I only consider myself a fan of the iphone personally. My favorite carrier is Sprint. I really like their prices and offerings.
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Versed

Nov 5, 2009, 5:54 PM
And Sprint just announced they aren't changing their etf fee's.
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Azeron

Nov 5, 2009, 7:28 PM
Really good PR if it sticks. Maybe all the other carriers will leave their ETF's right where they are. I think Sprint's is $200. Then if enough customers leave Verizon, perhaps they will reconsider. *Shrug* The point is that consumers have choice and I like that. Don't like Verizon's ETF then don't sign up with them. It only affects contracts effective Nov 15 or afterwards. If Sprint and the other carriers hold firm with their current ETFs this could be a referendum on the policy.
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Overmann

Nov 6, 2009, 10:50 AM
The fact that it covers "Advanced Devices" means that most everyday joes that go buy Samsung
  • ugly
  • Smooth phones for free after rebate aren't effective.

    Quite whining about your ebay phone flipping business. Carriers lose money even on the ETF disconnect fee once they've given away (special free smartphone on line deal) a $500 smartphone for a total of $290 (basic plan 1 month and activation and ETF), and that person goes and sells it on ebay for $400, netting about a $100 profit for the ebay seller. By raising the ETF on these to $350, that means $475 cost to do the same thing. Problem solved.
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    Menno

    Nov 5, 2009, 9:44 PM
    "make the people with guns fix it for me."


    I really hate people who whine on internet forums, I'm going to call my senator and have him waste millions of dollars investigating you because I don't like it that your opinion is different than mine.
    🙄
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    Menno

    Nov 5, 2009, 9:42 PM
    you can get a high end smartphone for $50.

    You can get a decent messaging phone for 129


    they are charging LESS for smartphones than normal phone because of that data, but the smartphones COST more, meaning that if someone cancels, it hurts the company MORE.

    And, at least in the case of blackberries, (and iphones) a nice chunk of that data package goes to the company that makes the phone, not the company offering service.
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    sugarb85

    Nov 6, 2009, 6:46 PM
    I agree with you on that. They do make a profit off of the data plns that must be added to these smartphones, no doubt. But if you are a good/loyal customer that enjoys your service, why freak out on the ETF. Do you plan on moving to an area that has poor coverage? If TMo decided to change their ETF for the smartphones I would not trip out because I do not plan on switching my carrier anytime soon. The people who should freak out about this are Carrier Hoppers & of course the Flippers.
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    nikg

    Nov 5, 2009, 3:16 PM
    Menno said:
    how is an etf greedy? do you SERIOUSLY think a company wants to collect it?
    VZW makes a smart business decision and everyone is up in arms, screaming "UNFAIR". The subsidy matches the ETF, what's the big deal? I gather that, since the wireless industry has been caught in a wait and see mode for some time now, it will not take long for the other Big Three (carriers) to follow suit.
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    Azeron

    Nov 5, 2009, 4:34 PM
    LOL Feb 6 2008 when Verizon dropped the Unlimited plan AT&T and T-Mobile matched it within hours and Sprint rolled out Simply Everything the next week. I'm actually surprised at the restraint by the other carriers. It reminds me when Verizon did not have ACT fees on 2 year contracts and AT&T's was $36. Verizon was bragging about not having activation fees for quite some while until some pencil pusher remarked how much money they had lost by not charging them. Bam! $35 ACT fees even on two year contracts.
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    muchdrama

    Nov 5, 2009, 4:37 PM
    coldsmoke said:
    Need I say more? They're out of their freakin minds.


    Spoken like a fool who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

    Verizon, like any other carrier, is doing this to protect their investment from "subscribers" intent on making money off Verizon.
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    Versed

    Nov 5, 2009, 5:56 PM
    muchdrama said:


    Spoken like a fool who has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

    Verizon, like any other carrier, is doing this to protect their investment from "subscribers" intent on making money off Verizon.


    Spoken like a retard who thinks any of these carriers are losing money or is a benevolent society.
    ...
    muchdrama

    Nov 5, 2009, 6:11 PM
    Versed said:


    Spoken like a retard who thinks any of these carriers are losing money or is a benevolent society.


    Right, because it's impossible for a carrier to lose money. Get the smartphone for dirt cheap, pay your $175 ETF when you cut the cord, and *VOILA!*, sell the smartphone on Ebay for a profit! Brilliant!
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    Versed

    Nov 5, 2009, 6:27 PM
    Well, not sure how much profit one would get, ok, some. Ok now this ebay buyer goes to VZW (because the phone ain't worth crap on any other carrier) and what happens? VZW starts making money again off of that customer. And thats OK.
    ...
    muchdrama

    Nov 5, 2009, 6:43 PM
    Versed said:
    Well, not sure how much profit one would get, ok, some. Ok now this ebay buyer goes to VZW (because the phone ain't worth crap on any other carrier) and what happens? VZW starts making money again off of that customer. And thats OK.


    It's called a contract. If you don't like it, you go with another carrier that best serves you.
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    Menno

    Nov 5, 2009, 9:34 PM
    No, because the customer buying on ebay is 99% of the time already a customer, so verizon would make a profit off of them one way or another. so the money they bring to the company doesn't really count. The only exception would be new data users (people getting their first blackberry on ebay).

    But that money is very little compared to the lost money on subsidized phones and the lost contracts because a popular phone was sold out so it can be put on ebay.
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    Versed

    Nov 6, 2009, 12:30 AM
    Menno,
    Its a flush, I sell you my phone and leave, pay this etf, you goto VZW and with a BB, or droid you're running close to the same $90 or so plan, its no different. They're getting the money back on the cost of the phone, and I agree I don't think they want the 350 bux, what they want is to keep customers that would leave. They want customers for life, and this isn't only VZW. Outside of the iPhone and even that I'm not so sure about, they aren't paying what these carriers call retail for these phones. If one goes to a reseller, well thats their problem, and many of them charge you an etf fee or plan change above what the carriers charge. I can care less what happens to resellers, I hate using them, the few bux difference isn't...
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    bp3dots1

    Nov 6, 2009, 9:52 AM
    "Its a flush, I sell you my phone and leave, pay this etf, you goto VZW and with a BB, or droid you're running close to the same $90 or so plan, its no different"

    Most people who are buying high end phones already have the required data plans, as they already have a smartphone. So the only change is the loss VZW (or any carrier really) takes on the discounted phone.

    Sure there are exceptions to this, but they are not the norm.
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    DMZ

    Nov 8, 2009, 5:18 AM
    that Verizon has gotten too big for their britches and has long since copped the attitude of "We're The Biggest and The Best, So If You Don't Like It, GO F**K YOURSELF".

    No one should be forced to pay such an astonishingly outrageous cancellation fee. I sincerely hope many many state Attorney Generals go after them on this.
    ...

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