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AT&T to Officially Mandate Data Plans for All Smartphones

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what is worse

matonater

Aug 22, 2009, 4:55 PM
you have to buy a new car with tires on it

smart phones dont work with out data plans

im glad they are doing this because im sick of every gansta buying one to look cool when he knows he has no use for a blackberry or treo
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Pocket_Girl

Aug 22, 2009, 4:57 PM
so your tellin me "ganstas" dont have the right o buy what they want because they want to look cool or feel cool. you wanna take that right away? why cause your annoyed with ganstas? or because they dont deserve to buy what white rich white boys purchase?
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Menno

Aug 22, 2009, 5:05 PM
Please tell me how it is a right.

By claiming something is a "right" you make the word meaningless, like the boy who cries wolf.

And no, if someone cannot afford the data plan, they should not purchase the phone. It is much better to get a phone that suits their needs and save the additional money instead of wasting it on a status symbol.

Consumerism is a cancer to be irradiated, not a sin to be encouraged
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 9:03 AM
Menno said:
And no, if someone cannot afford the data plan, they should not purchase the phone.


"Afford it"? There's plenty of crap (sorry, merchandise) out there that I can afford, but don't need. A data plan is a prime example - it's near zero value for me. For $30 per month I'd rather buy something I'll actually use.

But I do need a WinMO based PDA with wifi, and don't want to carry and synch it separately from my phone.

Looks like after September 6th, I'll have to stick with buying unlocked third party devices.
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Menno

Aug 24, 2009, 9:44 AM
I have no issue with people buying unlocked phones and using it without data.

My only issue are with the people who are buying phones at 199, and then not using the data that allows the companies to offer the phone for that price.

And believe me, I know the frustration of carrying two devices around (that's what I'm doing now until I can afford a blackberry)
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 11:43 AM
Menno said:
I have no issue with people buying unlocked phones and using it without data.


He-he, my third party Windows Mobile Smartphone (bought unlocked) was about $100:
https://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=395. » I think "unopened box" voqs still pop up on eBay every once in a while.

My only issue are with the people who are buying phones at 199, and then not using the data that allows the companies to offer the phone for that price.

Why would you have issue with them? It's AT&T's price policy miscalculation. It really is. If AT&T cannot afford selling $99 phones, they'll raise their prices (which is what we're seeing now).

If, say, a grocery store runs a we...
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Menno

Aug 24, 2009, 1:15 PM
The problem is that if ATT raises their smartphone prices, and no one else does, they'll lose thousands of customers. The reason everyone else is so cheap is what my Verizon rep calls "the iphone problem."

When they came out with the iphone for 199, other companies had to match it, because when they were selling their non-touch screen smartphones for 300+, it was really hard to justify it to the typical consumer. So everyone dropped prices, and now that price is almost a barrier for companies. If they make a phone higher priced than that (on an upgrade) it better make sandwiches and whistle Dixie.

So while I agree that they got themselves into this mess, raising the price above that 199 is a lot more difficult for a company than it...
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 1:48 PM
Menno said:
So while I agree that they got themselves into this mess, raising the price above that 199 is a lot more difficult for a company than it sounds.


Don't get me started on this whole iPhone thing. Suddenly, a whole bunch of people decided that they must have an expensive device, with an expensive multimedia network connection. Nice GUI can only account for so much, the rest must be some kind of woodoo that only Steve Jobs is privy to.

But yes, I agree - it's a tough job making money in cellphone market. Especially for a company as huge and messy as AT&T. As far as I'm concerned, they are within their rights to do anything they like with the prices and rates - it's their stuff, up to them ho...
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ExploderBlade

Aug 27, 2009, 5:31 PM
They actually do....It's at the bottom of your contratc, where it says ATT withholds the right to switch up their network at anytime. Anything you dowload to your device stays there until you remove it. If ATT decides to axe it before you get hold of it, then you gotta deal.
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Phoner

Aug 31, 2009, 9:18 AM
ExploderBlade said:
They actually do....It's at the bottom of your contratc, where it says ATT withholds the right to switch up their network at anytime. Anything you dowload to your device stays there until you remove it. If ATT decides to axe it before you get hold of it, then you gotta deal.

Forget the network services and stuff that I download. Administrative access means control over everything on the device and the memory card.

An administrator can view, delete, and lock all programs and data at will. Install and revoke and trust certificates. Remotely format the device and the memory card. Install, deinstall, enable and disable programs over the air. Apply and undo upgrade...
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doomtroll

Aug 24, 2009, 10:42 AM
"For $30 per month I'd rather buy something I'll actually use."

Then buy a phone you will "use" not a smart phone that requires data you wont "use"
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 11:47 AM
doomtroll said:Then buy a phone you will "use" not a smart phone that requires data you wont "use"


But what I need is a Windows Mobile mini-computer with GPS, wifi, and text keyboard, that also functions as a phone. These are only marketed as smartphones.
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ExploderBlade

Aug 27, 2009, 7:19 PM
The get a regular PDA...you know, with out the phone tech in it. Or buy an unlocked WINMo phone and use it as such. OR, get a Sprint WinMo with out data, OR, just ay for the dang data....simple.
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Phoner

Aug 31, 2009, 10:14 AM
ExploderBlade said:
The[n] get a regular PDA...you know, with out the phone tech in it. Or buy an unlocked WINMo phone and use it as such. OR, get a Sprint WinMo with out data, OR, just [p]ay for the dang data....simple.

Here's what you should've said: "Oh I see now why you need a smartphone, thanks for the explanation".

What, where, and how to buy - I'll figure out all by myself, thank you very much.
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donebrasko

Aug 24, 2009, 9:24 AM
So what about my brother? he has had his 8125 for years and he doesnt have a data plan. He only uses it when he is in a WiFi location, but he needs the windows mobile applications to do what he has to do throughout the day. So if he decides to go with the TP2 he is going to be forced into a plan that he doesnt need?

Anyone that says that you should have to buy data is an idiot and doesnt even deserve a phone.

Its all about money. These companies want as much money as they can take from us. Once the data plan comes into effect.....the next thing they will do is raise the price. Whats to stop them? You have to buy the data plan to get the phone so whats 5 more dollars a month?


You sheep need to wake up and recognize.....
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donebrasko

Aug 24, 2009, 9:24 AM
So what about my brother? he has had his 8125 for years and he doesnt have a data plan. He only uses it when he is in a WiFi location, but he needs the windows mobile applications to do what he has to do throughout the day. So if he decides to go with the TP2 he is going to be forced into a plan that he doesnt need?

Anyone that says that you should have to buy data is an idiot and doesnt even deserve a phone.

Its all about money. These companies want as much money as they can take from us. Once the data plan comes into effect.....the next thing they will do is raise the price. Whats to stop them? You have to buy the data plan to get the phone so whats 5 more dollars a month?


You sheep need to wake up and recognize.....
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Menno

Aug 24, 2009, 9:52 AM
They won't raise the data rate because 29.99 is the industry standard, and is linked to what Blackberry charges. If anything, you'll see data rates decrease as companies move towards 4g.

If your brother buys the phones at retail cost, I have no issue with him using it without data.

If customers:
1) Were willing to pay a premium to get the phone without data. (or were willing to pay for phones period)
2) Actually paid for then they used PPU data instead of bitching about it every bill cycle.

You wouldn't see this. Companies will do whatever they can to make money. If the subscribers they gained from offering a no data plan option were profitable, you can bet they would continue to offer it. The problem is, is that they're not.
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matonater

Aug 22, 2009, 5:07 PM
if they want to buy the smart phone they still can. they just have to pay for data

and yes they annoy me. they should think about paying their child support before they buy a 300 dollar phone...but thats just me
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Pocket_Girl

Aug 22, 2009, 5:24 PM
wow thats pretty racist. i feel bad for you and for everyone else that thinks like you. i guess yall are used to "taking it" and liking it
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matonater

Aug 22, 2009, 5:28 PM
what do you mean taking it

are you talking about having to put up with people like that
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Pocket_Girl

Aug 22, 2009, 5:31 PM
well i mean taking whatever is forced down your throat that you dont want. being forced anything that you dont want in any case when you dont want to
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matonater

Aug 22, 2009, 5:37 PM
yea...that does not happen to me. nice try though
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Pocket_Girl

Aug 23, 2009, 10:06 AM
apparentely you do because you agree with this whole thing. you want other people to have something forced down their throat and accept it... so if your all for that then you must enjoy it youself
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Kryger

Aug 23, 2009, 7:35 PM
noones forcing u to get a data phone.
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matonater

Aug 24, 2009, 9:52 AM
no ones been forced to do anything

you make very little sense
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KoldPhusion

Aug 22, 2009, 5:44 PM
I'm slightly confused as to when race came into this conversation.....oh, that's right, when you brought it up. Unfortunately for you, I know several people that don't pay their child support, be they white, black, mexican, asian, etc.
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matonater

Aug 22, 2009, 5:48 PM
I was thinking the same thing. if she is black I bet she is one that plays the race card everytime she does not get her way
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Pocket_Girl

Aug 23, 2009, 10:09 AM
sorry but who clarified what race? not me... i dont rememebr saying any race. sorry for you to not be able to interpret.
i know many people who DONT pay their child support that are NOT gansta thank you very much.
so like i said i feel sorry for that guy judging people by the way they look and talk and act. they might act all tough and wear bandanas but that does not mean they dont pay their child support and that they dont deserve a smartphone
🙄
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matonater

Aug 24, 2009, 9:53 AM
if that is the case why did you call me racist
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Jayshmay

Aug 23, 2009, 7:27 AM
Numbers don't lie nor are numbers racist. Numbers tell the truth.
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looch_himself

Aug 22, 2009, 5:01 PM
matonater said:
you have to buy a new car with tires on it

smart phones dont work with out data plans

im glad they are doing this because im sick of every gansta buying one to look cool when he knows he has no use for a blackberry or treo

*facepalm*
Everyone keeps giving examples that make no sense. Nobody has to pay an extra MONTHLY fee for tires on their car. A Smartphone will make and receive calls just fine without a data plan. You do NOT have to subscribe to Satellite Radio when you buy a new car, do you?
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Menno

Aug 22, 2009, 5:07 PM
No, but if you get a gas guzzler, you have to pay a gas guzzler's tax, even if you never drive the car.

That is the costs associated with that status symbol. If you do not want to pay the cost, you need to find something else to buy.
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matonater

Aug 22, 2009, 5:07 PM
exactly
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looch_himself

Aug 22, 2009, 5:18 PM
My point is, people are claiming the device doesn't work without a data plan, and then giving ridiculous examples that don't fit the situation. Of course your new car needs tires, but it DOES NOT need Satellite Radio. Satellite Radio is an extra, just as a Data Feature is an extra. I shouldn't be forced into paying an extra fee just because I happen to like the appearance of a device.

I personally own a Curve 8900. I CHOSE to get the data feature offered by T-Mobile because I wanted the full experience of the device. But lets say my Grandfather wants the same device, not because of the data connectivity, but because the high resolution screen makes it easy for him to see his contact list or whatever. Why should he be forced into pay...
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matonater

Aug 22, 2009, 5:23 PM
I do see your point but as a whole if you are not getting data you dont need a smart device 99.99% of the time
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looch_himself

Aug 22, 2009, 5:28 PM
This isn't about, nor has it ever been, NEED. Plain and simple truth is, a PDA or a Blackberry does not NEED a data feature to work. It will still send and receive calls if the data is blocked. It's not up to the company to decide who NEEDS the device.
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matonater

Aug 22, 2009, 5:31 PM
I bet they lose more money on pda's when they activate one than a simple phone

they do this because they regain the money via the data charge

when to many people started not getting data they decided to make it mandatory so they wont continue to lose money at the point of sale

I have no problem with att's decision
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Menno

Aug 22, 2009, 5:55 PM
Actually it is WHOLLY up to them.

If a customer without data on their smartphone is not profitable to a company, it is their prerogative to prevent such customers from getting service.

a customer without data:
-Costs the company more up front because they are buying a highly subsidized phone without the data plan it was built for
-Cost the company more in typical customer service calls
-Cost the company who knows how much in failed revenue when they are "forced" to waive PPU data fees for a customer who swears "they never use data" every month.
-Cost the Phone manufacturers choices when it comes to making a phone function to it's full potential.

and a phone without data will not be able to MMS, will suffer in call quality and si...
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Menno

Aug 22, 2009, 5:30 PM
The devices DON'T WORK without the data plan. I don't know how it is with Tmobile, but I can tell you that with newer verizon phones, if you do find a way to cheat the system your "Storm without a data plan" is about as useful as a paperweight because even call quality suffers.

And there are other high resolution screens (screens with larger font capabilities too) for your grandfather. He does not need a 8900, and it is not cost effective for him to get it.

Before ATT lowers any prices, they should show more good faith and get a 3g network that works. They won't lower prices (and they don't need to) as more people are coming to their service than leaving.

Verizon's required data for almost a year now, and their smartphone sales a...
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OzzieDog

Aug 22, 2009, 6:03 PM
Your right to get the full use of a smart phone one would need a data package, I have and old, beat up blackberry 8310 curve that is used as back up phone for my teenagers. When their phone breaks and pop the sim card out of the broken phone and pop it into the curve. All they get is dial tone and texting sometimes. And if all they can get is voice service until they replacement phone comes that is all they need. Is AT&T now somehow going to prevent this? Granted they don't have smart phones that comes later when it's on their dime. One should have the choice to use the sim card on whatever phone he/she chooses to do so, knowing that without a data package they are only getting voice service. If they want to full use then by all means ...
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matonater

Aug 22, 2009, 6:09 PM
a company does not have to let you choose something if they are losing money

I own a cleaning company and my accounts dont get to choose what chemicals and supplies I use

very loose comparison but along the same lines
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OzzieDog

Aug 22, 2009, 6:45 PM
So what your saying is that no one is suppose to use a smart phone for whatever reason regardless of the situation unless they have a data plan.
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Menno

Aug 22, 2009, 7:32 PM
What we are saying is that there is no reason to have a smart phone without having the data features because those features are what makes a smart phone different from a basic phone.
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matonater

Aug 24, 2009, 9:56 AM
yup
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 8:48 AM
matonater said:
smart phones dont work with out data plans

Actually, they work just fine. Even better in many cases.
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matonater

Aug 24, 2009, 9:54 AM
they do not do anything they are designed to do except calls and text
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 10:59 AM
matonater said:
they do not do anything they are designed to do except calls and text

They are tiny computers. They are designed to do whatever their user wants them to do. Just like with my home computer, I install software that does what I want, and deinstall or disable software that doesn't.

It's up to me to decide which is useful and which is a wastes of resources on my device, not up to AT&T. If I decide that cell data connection is useless - then it is, for me.
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matonater

Aug 24, 2009, 11:06 AM
then dont buy a pda phone if you think its useless

and att provides the service and phones so anything involving the service and phone is completely their choice

if they no longer wanted to offer data or txt messaging they are free to do so.
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 12:04 PM
matonater said:
then dont buy a pda phone if you think its useless

Whatever gave you that idea?

To me, the cell data services are useless. What I need, is a Windows Mobile handheld PDA with wifi and GPS, that also makes and receives calls.

and att provides the service and phones so anything involving the service and phone is completely their choice

Absolutely. I'm not telling AT&T what to do. Than again, it's AT&T's job to look after AT&T, and mine to look after me.
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Menno

Aug 24, 2009, 11:44 AM
Which i agree with (to a point) The problem is that unlike a computer, the phone you get is just your way to connect to the network, and how you use your phone directly impacts the network (using it for voice as opposed to connecting it to 3g for data). Companies should have some say in the phones on their network because, as shown by the iphone, your usage can negatively impact others.

That being said, if a customer buys the phone unlocked/provides their own equipment, or pays an higher initial cost for the phone, I think they should be able to get what services they want on the device.

The thing is, is that most customers won't pay the higher cost (as shown by Pocket_girl)to do this, or if they do, will call in to complain about PP...
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 11:58 AM
Menno said:
Which i agree with (to a point) The problem is that unlike a computer, the phone you get is just your way to connect to the network, and how you use your phone directly impacts the network (using it for voice as opposed to connecting it to 3g for data). Companies should have some say in the phones on their network because, as shown by the iphone, your usage can negatively impact others.

Oh, absolutely. The provider should be able to block me from damaging their network by excessive traffic.

That being said, if a customer buys the phone unlocked/provides their own equipment, or pays an higher initial cost for the phone, I think they should be able to get what services they want o
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Menno

Aug 24, 2009, 9:56 AM
That is like saying a car works just fine if you hook it up to a pair of horses instead of paying for gas.

And I can't speak for ATT, but for Verizon smartphones suffer in call quality and connectivity if they are made to require data and the customer somehow gets it blocked (just like Nationwide-only phones suffer if activated on grandfathered plans)
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 10:54 AM
Menno said:
That is like saying a car works just fine if you hook it up to a pair of horses instead of paying for gas.


I can make my phone do what I need it to do without a data plan. A data plan will not add anything of value to my usage of the phone. But I do need a Windows Mobile device, with wifi and a GPS receiver and a text keyboard. What I don't need, is the cell data access.

Part of it has to do with the fact that I live and work within wifi range (at home, I'm paying AT&T for it).

And I can't speak for ATT, but for Verizon smartphones suffer in call quality and connectivity if they are made to require data and the customer somehow gets it blocked (just like Nationwide-only pho
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matonater

Aug 24, 2009, 10:12 AM
my cup works just fine without liquid
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Phoner

Aug 24, 2009, 11:59 AM
So does mine. I only put liquid into it when I want to drink, and I'm the one who decides what that liquid is.
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asLeepLessman

Aug 28, 2009, 10:42 AM
I dont use mine to drink. I use my as a paper weight. Whichever pile has the cup on it, I finished looking over. My cup works just fine.
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