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Verizon Wireless Clarifies LTE Timeline

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Sim Card--YES!!!!

kingstu

May 13, 2009, 8:24 PM
With their decision to use SIM cards, which will be in line with the rest of the GSM world, it will make for devices that are interoperable between AT&T and Verizon. Maybe we will have the ability to have built-in LTE modems be almost universal in laptops. GOBI is nice, this would be much nicer. Because if everyone has the hardware they only need the sim and a data plan and if they have a sim from all the providers they can use the best data plan for whatever location or use.
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ToddD81

May 13, 2009, 8:36 PM
Apparently you didn't read the part where it said "the cards will likely only be swappable with other Verizon LTE-certified hardware"

Yes that is what it said. You didn't expect verizon to allow something and not lock down their devices did you?
Reason I left them and took all 7 of my lines to AT&T
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irockash

May 13, 2009, 8:44 PM
So does this imply that there will be locking on the card along with the handset?

Since AT&T and Verizon will both use 700mhz for thier LTE networks, the hardware will already be setup to use either. The case with GSM right now, is that the phone only needs to be unlocked, and it will work on any GSM network (that the phone can pick up).

I wonder how that'll work out...
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kingstu

May 13, 2009, 9:50 PM
From reading the original article I see no reason why devices can't be unlocked or the OEM can't make devices that meet Verizon's qualifications as well as other companies. If you buy any equipment from Verizon it will probably be SIM locked but for the device manufacturers to make devices that only work with Verizon would seem crazy and a step backwards. I expect Vodaphone will have the same sorts of devices available on their networks when LTE starts to roll out.
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Jayshmay

May 14, 2009, 10:02 AM
Yeah, I mean if an LTE handset is unlocked & unbranded and has LTE in the 700mhz band then I don't see why it can't be used on either ATT or Verizon.
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Azeron

May 14, 2009, 3:05 PM
That is fine. Just as long as Verizon does not allow AT&T customers access to its network.
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Pink Jazz

May 14, 2009, 3:47 PM
As I already said, you shouldn't get too excited about being able to switch phones between AT&T and Verizon.

Verizon has built an expansive CDMA network, and will remain in operation well into the future. There is no way Verizon could immediately overlay the entire CDMA network with LTE and instantly shut down the CDMA network, otherwise they would lose millions of customers.

Because of this, chances are that the majority of Verizon's phones will be dual-mode LTE/CDMA for several years rather than LTE-only. Try using one of those phones on AT&T and you will have very little coverage except in areas that AT&T operates an LTE network.

At the same time, most of AT&T's phones will probably be LTE/UMTS/GSM. Verizon doesn't use UMT...
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irockash

May 14, 2009, 4:58 PM
Right-o. How long did it take for them to kill TDMA (analog) networks?
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Pink Jazz

May 14, 2009, 6:09 PM
irockash said:
Right-o. How long did it take for them to kill TDMA (analog) networks?


First, TDMA (aka D-AMPS) and Analog (aka AMPS) are not the same thing. AMPS is the original mobile standard that was used in the U.S. D-AMPS was a digital extension to AMPS and was the first digital mobile standard to be used in the U.S.

AMPS was introduced in 1983. D-AMPS aka TDMA was introduced in 1990. Both AT&T and Verizon shut down their TDMA and AMPS networks in February 2008. Alltel soon followed in October 2008. U.S. Cellular also shut down their TDMA/AMPS network in early 2009.

Second, Verizon never used TDMA/D-AMPS, however, AT&T did.

The dual-mode LTE/CDMA solution for Verizon will probably be si...
(continues)
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irockash

May 14, 2009, 7:56 PM
Burn!
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VZW611LA

May 14, 2009, 7:21 AM
O well. We still have almost 10 million more people then AT&T. Also the best service and ratings in the US. And the new phones are not like the phones now. And the SIM cards are not like SIM cards we think of now. I hate dumb people.
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Menno

May 14, 2009, 8:08 AM
Basic phones will more than likely be locked down, but I can see Smartphones being certified even as "unlocked."

As long as people demand free phones you'll have locked phones specific to networks. Considering discounted phones are the biggest draw to contracts for most people, I don't see ATT just allowing basic Verizon phones on their network either.
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Pink Jazz

May 14, 2009, 8:25 AM
Don't get too excited. Chances are that Verizon's phones will be dual-mode LTE/CDMA, so to use one on AT&T, you must be in an area where AT&T will have an LTE network. I am pretty sure AT&T's phones will be LTE/UMTS/GSM.
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glinc

May 14, 2009, 8:48 AM
exactly, Verizon phones will have to be LTE/CDMA. The LTE on verizon will be mostly for data and will require EVDO as a back up when you are in areas where there is no LTE Coverage. Also voice will still be on 1X network.
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Radbard

May 14, 2009, 10:49 AM
I was thinking that LTE would be fast enough to use VoIP, that would be the best option.
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PooFlinger1

May 14, 2009, 12:05 PM
Just because a service is fast enough for VOIP does not mean that it can handle VOIP. For VOIP to be successful, you have to have very little packet loss, and very little jitter.

Jitter is the difference in the time it takes packets to reach their destination or the difference between pings. By default, VOIP such as SIP and IAX typically build in about a 30ms voice buffer to accomodate for varrying responce times. When your ping or jitter gets outside of that range, you start loosing voice and the call gets garbled. So if your lowest ping is 50ms, then for VOIP to work well, your ping would have to stay within 50-80ms. Anything higher, and you loose quality.

VOIP actually takes very little badwidth depending on the codec used. G7...
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Jayshmay

May 14, 2009, 9:17 PM
Yourself and Japhy are the only really knowledgable ones regular cellphone enthusiasts like myself have on Phone Scoop.
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WiWavelength

May 15, 2009, 2:24 AM
PooFlinger1 said:
Technically, from a bandwith state, carriers 2G could probably even handle a VOIP call. However the jitter would kill it and is what keeps VOIP from happening like that.


Actually, overall high latency is what makes 2G VoIP impractical. Jitter is just the average delta or standard deviation w/in that latency.

AJ
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Azeron

May 14, 2009, 3:08 PM
Best for whom? Verizon has built this expansive network and they are going to just waste it?
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Mark_S

May 14, 2009, 9:22 AM
China already uses CSIM cards for their CDMA network. I do not think for a moment that ATT, T-Mobile and Verizon would share 4G networks. American corporate selfishness for the almighty dollar rules the roost. ☚ī¸
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Menno

May 14, 2009, 10:26 AM
It's more that the FCC is pushing for carriers to offer "free roaming." Which basically means if you are the last person to enter the field, you have no sunk costs in networks.

high end phones will more than likely be swappable (eventually) But don't expect entry level models like the EnV line, etc to work on other carriers. Contracts build networks, not month to month service. at least initially.

It's not corporate greed, its companies trying to break even. Considering that Verizon is one of the only companies really turning a profit, I would say the other carriers need to start taking notes. You don't provide a service without money.

If you want to blame greed, look no further than the consumer who wants everything for free ...
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Radbard

May 14, 2009, 10:47 AM
Menno said:
If you want to blame greed, look no further than the consumer who wants everything for free and accepts no responsibility.


Exactly
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HawkeyeOC

May 14, 2009, 1:04 PM
well said 😁
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Azeron

May 14, 2009, 3:09 PM
What exactly do you have against people making money? What are they supposed to pay all this money to build a network and then just give away the service?
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