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Motorola Announces Next-Gen PTT Technology for EVDO Rev. A

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The Problem With PTT Over Cellular

jrfdsf

Aug 22, 2008, 3:40 PM
Is that it relies on the telephone company's switched network system, rather than being a true walkie-talkie SMR based technology.

Since this system relies on the phone line, it won't work if the lines are all busy or down, which happens sometimes. There's also the problem with bandwidth and voice channel availability. iDEN uses only a half-duplex voice channel and very little bandwidth to make calls while POC uses an entire voice channel and is a major bandwidth hog to boot.

What all of this means is if you are operating a business with 500+ employees who will be making frequent PTT calls, the nearby tower will get overloaded VERY quickly with voice and data traffic.

There's a reason that it's called "Direct Connect." Direct Connec...
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Overmann

Aug 22, 2008, 4:29 PM
I remember iDEN PTT having the audio quality of an AM broadcast, with all of us frequently repeating "Say again" or just calling up the person to talk to them. While iDEN sipped bandwidth like the way a Toyota Prius sips fuel, it came at the cost of very compressed audio.
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jrfdsf

Aug 22, 2008, 5:02 PM
Overmann said:
I remember iDEN PTT having the audio quality of an AM broadcast, with all of us frequently repeating "Say again" or just calling up the person to talk to them. While iDEN sipped bandwidth like the way a Toyota Prius sips fuel, it came at the cost of very compressed audio.


I've never experienced problems understanding someone on my two-way. I think iDEN's digital voice is much clearer than a traditional, analog walkie-talkie. Funny that you never hear voice quality complaints leveled at those devices and technology like you see against iDEN. I think the reason most users have problems understanding the other party is simply because they turn the volume up way too loud.
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island-guy

Aug 22, 2008, 9:50 PM
I agree. The communication problems I have with IDEN PTT is when my workers are in blowing wind or yelling too close to the speaker, this will cause problems with any form of communication. I have Sprint CDMA, T-Mobile, and ATT in my family and my Nextel hands down has the best call quality with phone or PTT. I live in Hawaii and the advantage of living on a relatively small island is that every carrier has solid coverage here. I hope IDEN does not go the way of the dinosaurs anytime soon, I love the communication that PTT gives me and can't imagine working without it. I tried Qchat here with Sprint and I can tell you that it's not as consistent as my IDEN unit. When the airwaves are busy I can tell because the unit will have a significant d...
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rmcnamee

Aug 22, 2008, 10:32 PM
The thing is, iDEN is becoming outdated; it's not outdated right now, and the PoC technologies will only become better. WiMAX is on the horizon for Sprint, which will eliminate a lot of issues that have to do with reception - one tower will penetrate buildings and have a 10 mile radius. LTE for the rest of the companies, which is looking to eventually (sooner rather than later) be compatible with WiMAX, will make things even better. The new technologies will eliminate bandwidth problems as well as reception issues over the next 2 - 4 years. Until then, more power to you, iDEN users.
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rtk2626

Aug 23, 2008, 9:39 AM
The only thing destined to fail is iDEN!
Riddle me this- If Sprint thought this was a liable source of future income why would they be shoping iDEN(Nextel) on the open market? At best the iden network turns into an mvno based for walkie talkie service(boost could be huge if they decide to buy the whole network back from sprint) Walkie talkie service is not even close to being used as much as text messaging and data service and still voice service over shaddows ptt. I would put iden along the lines with TDMA. Good for the times bad for the future. Do you see asian and foreign markets divulging millions into ptt? I sure dont. The only foreign markets that care about iden is south america, central america. And most of those markets are po...
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jrfdsf

Aug 23, 2008, 12:02 PM
rtk2626 said:
The only thing destined to fail is iDEN!
Riddle me this- If Sprint thought this was a liable source of future income why would they be shoping iDEN(Nextel) on the open market?

jrfdsf said: This was a false rumor posted by Phonescoop. Sprint is not selling iDEN.

As for not being a liable source of income, how much money do you think Sprint will make if the remaining 13 million subscribers suddenly are gone via a sale of iDEN?


At best the iden network turns into an mvno based for walkie talkie service(boost could be huge if they decide to buy the whole network back from sprint) Walkie talkie service is not even close to being used as much as text messaging and data service and still
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cellphonesaretools

Aug 23, 2008, 12:44 PM
Very well said, jrfdsf.

"rtk2626" is one of those people who has a very small amount of information, and an axe to grind, and so makes sweeping posts as if they have complete knowledge. But in this case it is obvious that "rtk2626" does not have complete nor accurate knowledge of iDEN and how it works.

So, in terms of knowing what they are talking about and providing value to the readers via their postings, "jrfdsf" gets an A, while "rtk2626" gets an F.
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Slammer

Aug 23, 2008, 3:41 PM
As a recovering Nextel addict, I must put in my input. Nextel for me was excellent for the 5 years I had them and did not want to leave. The problem I noticed was when they offered maximum deposit of 100 dollars, they had over 94,000 in new customers in one month alone. is this good? in most cases yes. But Most were non-construction or contractors. With that came more chatters than occational users. I started to notice that everytime I tried to key the DC, there would be more frequent unable to connect beeps. I took my phone in and received a new phone and the issue was unchanged. finally I got the answer that made sense. "overloading of the network". IDEN is unique. nextel was built around walkie talkie not voice calling like all the other ...
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cellphonesaretools

Aug 25, 2008, 8:13 AM
Well said, Slammer.

Nextel did oversell their network; victims of their own success.

I think it is possible that a lot of the issues you experienced were due to (a) the problems Motorola had in implementing the "6X" capacity increase, and (b) rebanding.

As a Nextel subscriber since 2002, I lived through it and watched as the network went from fantastic (2002-2005) to horrible (2005-200Cool and now back pretty much to what it was before 2005.

The original Nextel was already working on a 4G network upgrade with the Flarion trials, so they definitely had a path forward to relieve congestion and upgrade to modern data speeds. But the merger with Sprint put the kibosh on all that. I am confident that if Nextel had gone it alone, they wo...
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Slammer

Aug 25, 2008, 9:52 AM
I did not agree with the take over myself. it frankly pissed me off. you can't merge 2 different technologies and expect flawless customer service. but the customer service was unbearable. it is unfortunate that this happened. However when I made the switch from nextel, I decided to chose the unlikely Sprint because of the seamless transition it offered me. I have to tell you that I could not be happier with the service I am receiving. it was not Sprint itself that I was displeased with. it was the whole merge I disagreed with. both companies shot themselves in the foot with that move. I would switch back to nextel except that we have adapted to the loss of DC and powersource is working great for us. we are also really excited about the Wima...
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rtk2626

Aug 24, 2008, 12:08 PM
Actualy your way off with Sprint not selling nextel/Iden. Your foolish if you think that this is not going to happen. You may get your own "nextel" company branding back but it will not have anything to do with Sprint when this is done.
For those of you saying I have no knowledge than you are highly mistaken. I have been with sprint in management for 5 years and have alot of reliable sources to back up some of things I am saying. I think the nextel purchase was haist and not thought all the way through and sprint had a huge uphill battle trying to merge two totally different networks. Obviously that is why the nextel side is set to fail on Sprints behalf. I would think that all of the nextel loyalists would love a sell off from sprint s...
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jrfdsf

Aug 24, 2008, 1:58 PM
rtk2626 said:
Actualy your way off with Sprint not selling nextel/Iden. Your foolish if you think that this is not going to happen.

jrfdsf said:
This isn't something I merely "think." Sprint has publicly stated this as well as sent out mailings to current iDEN subscribers to that effect.


You may get your own "nextel" company branding back but it will not have anything to do with Sprint when this is done.

This point was already covered.

For those of you saying I have no knowledge than you are highly mistaken. I have been with sprint in management for 5 years and have alot of reliable sources to back up some of things I am saying.

Unfortunately, the most important sou
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rtk2626

Aug 24, 2008, 4:27 PM
You can call management in wireless boneheads all you want , but I have been in the wireless industry for 10 years but only 5 of it with sprint and the other 5 with at&t(cingular at the time).
I still think its a pipe dream for you to think that sprint will not shop the nextel iden network. You said it yourself that you would love to see them stand alone. I think if there was enough interest and enough money coming from a company than they would be stupid not too. I also have seen companies start their own rumors to see what the feedback is. I dont usually see false information sent out through the scoop so I would find it hard to believe that what was posted about Sprint wanting or needing to sell off the iden network was just a rumor, ...
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Slammer

Aug 25, 2008, 1:39 PM
I find all this converstion pointless and only hashing out bitter "opinions" on "facts". The merge happened and it wasn't pretty. the fact is PTT is needed and will be gaged toward what Nextel was based on: the quickest access possible to whomever you need to contact. If it was not for Nextel, these companies would not be trying to compete for this important part of communication between construction workers and contractors. Nextels DC will never be duplicated. it will only be "emulated" on a new technology. the future of PTT is going to be in the hands of the higher tech wireless carriers. There definitely will be some compromises with this. But in general, IDEN is the best in PTT technology and when its gone it will be known as "always ha...
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jrfdsf

Aug 25, 2008, 4:17 PM
No worries, man. We're just having a debate. No casualities here other than intellectual.

WIMAX and/or LTE may very well replace iDEN someday, but it will never be replaced by CDMA or GSM based POC solutions. The technology just isn't there to emulate it fully.
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rtk2626

Aug 25, 2008, 7:29 PM
jrfdsf, we finaly agree on something. I dont think I ever stated ptt would go away but if I did I was wrong all I was stating was that nextel as a whole was fading. You are right about cdma not taking over iden. Wimax and or lte will make all of this debate a moot point, but do you think that sprint will hold out that long before unloading the iden part? We had a IAE from Sprint tell us about a year ago that sprint was making a big to do about iden and nextel again and were going to advertise the crap out of it again... To me this looked like and open selling tool for sprint to make the iden network inticing for another company to buy. I think they need to take seperate routs and it would be best for iden to stand alone.
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jrfdsf

Aug 26, 2008, 3:14 PM
rtk2626 said:
jrfdsf, we finaly agree on something. I dont think I ever stated ptt would go away but if I did I was wrong all I was stating was that nextel as a whole was fading. You are right about cdma not taking over iden. Wimax and or lte will make all of this debate a moot point, but do you think that sprint will hold out that long before unloading the iden part? We had a IAE from Sprint tell us about a year ago that sprint was making a big to do about iden and nextel again and were going to advertise the crap out of it again... To me this looked like and open selling tool for sprint to make the iden network inticing for another company to buy. I think they need to take seperate routs and it would be best for iden t
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