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CDG, 3GPP2 Publish UMB Specs

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If you have any questions, I will try to help. (UMB or LTE)

nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 12:08 PM
You have any questions or concerns please ask and I will try to assist you. Either on LTE or UMB.
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T-Zag

Sep 24, 2007, 12:14 PM
Please sir explain the why one is better and/or different than the other.
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nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 2:14 PM
Sure. both LTE and UMB are considered 4G+ next generation. Which one is better? UMB. They both use OFDM/A and MIMO technologies. Just LTE has lesser data speeds both downlink and uplink. Both should probably be out in the 09 or 2010 period. Do you want me to go into any specifics?
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T-Zag

Sep 24, 2007, 2:40 PM
Nope thats was perfect thank you .
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en102

Sep 24, 2007, 7:48 PM
Are you sure ?
http://3gamericas.com/PDFs/Rysavy_EDGE_HSPA_LTE_2007 ... »

Shows that LTE rates at 326Mbps/86Mbps in 20MHz and UMB is less. In 10MHz its still less for UMB.
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nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 8:20 PM
I am looking at different data and it says that LTE has DL of 278mb/s and UL of 57mb/s by using 4x4 MIMO and 20mhz in FDD. The uplink for LTE is a bit different and that speed could vary. UMB is 20mhz at DL of 291mb/s and UL of 79mb/s. of course 4x4 MIMO is attached and 20mhz is also.

I have another data that gives me this. UMB: DL 17-291mb/s. of course the later have 4x4 MIMO and 20 MHz of usage. UL: 18-79mb/s. the latter is with 1x2 and 20mhz. better VOIP and lower latency, and better coverage range. LTE; 100mb/s DL and 50mb/s UL. Both using 20 MHz and 2x2 MIMO. Lesser coverage range and data isn’t tested as of yet.

Both of the data is from Qualcomm and LG.

Nokia also says that “high as 100mb/s DL and 50mb/s on the U...
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en102

Sep 26, 2007, 5:02 PM
While basic specs are published, there are always revisions.
http://www.3gpp.org/Highlights/LTE/LTE.htm »
states that those rates are the basic requirements
As a result, Technical Report (TR) 25.913 contains detailed requirements for the following criteria:

Peak data rate

* Instantaneous downlink peak data rate of 100 Mb/s within a 20 MHz downlink spectrum allocation (5 bps/Hz)
* Instantaneous uplink peak data rate of 50 Mb/s (2.5 bps/Hz) within a 20MHz uplink spectrum allocation)

One document is a requirement... one is theoretical peak. I don't suspect 'peak' will be be properly achieved, especially on throughput.
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en102

Sep 26, 2007, 5:05 PM
Also ... looks like they've done +100Mbps already
http://www.rcrnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20 ... »
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nextel18

Sep 26, 2007, 5:31 PM
I understand but my sources and documents support my conclusion and LTE’s speeds vs. UMB. I do not care what RCR says, because I care more about the companies who are actually in the industry then them.

On a side note, I doubt any of these speeds will actually be reached but NTT is working with 100 MHz and see what they did with their trials.
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bonecrusher

Sep 25, 2007, 2:29 AM
so you mean I can download at 326 megabytes a second??? I could download a movie to my phone in 2 or 3 seconds?
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sangyup81

Sep 25, 2007, 8:57 AM
megabits not megabytes
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BigShowJB

Sep 24, 2007, 12:25 PM
What ever happened to Rev B?
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sangyup81

Sep 24, 2007, 12:55 PM
nextel, I'll help with this one since this is in wikipedia 😁

Rev. B is a relatively minor upgrade to EV-DO Rev. A. Rev. B allows EV-DO to combine channels to get a higher bit rate so in a way it's more flexible than Rev. A for use in bandwidth demanding applications.

Also, Rev. B from what I understand is a software upgrade from Rev. A and it keeps most of the infrastructure.

Rev. C (which is more commonly called UMB now) is a change in both the software and hardware used. In fact, Rev. C relies on OFDM rather than a CDMA-type technology so in a way, it's not right to call it a revision of EV-DO.
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nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 2:23 PM
Thanks sangy. I was going to answer but obviously you did for me, although you didn’t address the what happened part so I did.
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nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 2:21 PM
sangyup81‘s answer is sufficient enough. Just wanted to add that it is possible for the carriers still do to REV B, but probably not likely as UMB (used to be REV C) has come into play. The carriers in the mean time could still launch REV B and then wait until UMB comes out commercially.
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sangyup81

Sep 24, 2007, 12:52 PM
Wouldn't there be a way to merge the UMB and LTE standards so that everyone could use them?

And from what I understand, LTE isn't finalized. They ask for at least 100MBps but it could be more possibly. Wouldn't UMB fulfill the needs of the LTE standard if it were changed up a little bit?
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nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 2:41 PM
it makes sense for both LTE and UMB to be combined but I doubt that can happen because there are some differences between the two technologies and I don’t think CDG or GSM would want to put an alliance as they compete against each other.

Yes, LTE is not finalized and it is in developmental stage. LTE should probably come in the 10 or 11 period. It could as early as 2009. UMB is commercially ready by 09. UMB actually is better than LTE in many ways so I am not sure why companies like Verizon and Vodafone do not pick UMB over LTE. I only see one main reason, which is to have a global LTE network. It is easier said than done though. I think it is easier for Verizon to pick UMB because they can use their existing spectrum a bit better ...
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KingJames670

Sep 24, 2007, 5:34 PM
so in other words, CDMA will be better than GSM in the later future?
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KingJames670

Sep 24, 2007, 5:41 PM
wait, now im confused 😕
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nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 7:26 PM
King. LTE and UMB have nothing to do with GSM and CDMA respectively. It is just a bit easier on infrastructure to deploy that network on that technology given. Meaning, Verizon and Sprint using UMB while a company like AT&T, and T-mobile to use LTE. They could do either or. LTE and UMB uses OFDM/A and MIMO, not GSM or CDMA.

CDMA and GSM are basically non-existent if you will other than just overlaying the networks with those advanced technologies mention.

Why are you so confused? Perhaps I can try to get rid of that for you. Seems to be happening, the confusion part, lately.
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KingJames670

Sep 24, 2007, 7:39 PM
ok thanks 😁
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en102

Sep 24, 2007, 7:54 PM
UMB, LTE are all OTA signalling (physical layer), and can run on any network.

Eg. the ANSI network (currently runs CDMA) which uses ESN, has had AMPS, TDMA and CDMA based air interfaces.

GSM's MAP network has had a TDMA based interface (aka GSM) and now uses a form of CDMA( aka W-CDMA). At one time there were talks of using a network called GSM 1x, which was GSM's MAP core with CDMA 1x air interface.
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shadowstar

Sep 24, 2007, 7:15 PM
I'm still just curious as to why Vodafone didn't make the move to UMB instead of forcing VZW to move to LTE. I'm sure that if those two large carriers changed their technology, it would create a major change in the industry.
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nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 7:22 PM
That is the same question that I continue to have. I think it is the fact that Voda already has their majority of their interests besides for Verizon aligned towards the GSM type so they want to use their infrastructure, which they can, for their LTE rollout. I think that Voda “forced” “coerced” Verizon into this and probably threatened them and said if you do not do this, we will just sell out the stake. I think it would be a dominant globalized network especially given the many resources and networks that Vodafone has. I actually don’t care about Verizon as much as I do with Vodafone. They probably thought it would be easier to do LTE than UMB. Verizon’s infrastructure would benefit better with the UMB tha...
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shadowstar

Sep 24, 2007, 7:35 PM
yeah. I guess that does make sense. It's just hard to see a network with almost 300 Mbps not be used when it's in the direct path of the current technology.
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nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 7:42 PM
However, you realize those speeds will probably never be reached especially in this country. The good thing is that the cost per bit is going down for all of the 4G technologies, which is great so at least they can offer better price points. I hope Verizon changes their ways because this investment won’t materialize for Verizon but will for Vodafone as Voda is a very good company. If I was Voda, I would get rid of their stake in Verizon Wireless.

See the thing is, it isn’t really the current technology though. It is a whole another technology just that you can use the infrastructure and spectrum a bit better.
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shadowstar

Sep 24, 2007, 7:57 PM
Hey thanks for the reply, but I'm just curious by what you mean by "this investment won’t materialize for Verizon but will for Vodafone as Voda is a very good company. If I was Voda, I would get rid of their stake in Verizon Wireless."

Why do you think it won't be a good investment for VZW, and why do you feel that VZW isn't a good company for Vodafone?
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nextel18

Sep 24, 2007, 8:27 PM
Well you know I am very critical of Verizon Wireless’ operations. Although I do think they are great, it seems like they don’t care for the data side as much as they do for the voice. I spoke extensively of the cons of their current operations and their data restrictions. They also do not have EV-DO roaming. I also mentioned that Verizon cares about data in their wire line division with FIOS and not wireless division. I say it won’t probably materialize for Verizon Wireless, although it can if they change, is the fact of their horrible data policies and restrictions that they have. In addition, what I mentioned about lack of EV-DO roaming and devices that are restricted. I think they should stick to their wire line FIOS divisi...
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cellguy23

Sep 24, 2007, 10:51 PM
Whats the rest of the world going to use for 4g data? So far it's LTE for VZW, ATT, and Voda. Sprint is going to Wimax with a couple Asian companies I believe. What about the likes of Orange , O2, Sk, Telefónica, and Deutsche Telekom.
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nextel18

Sep 25, 2007, 3:47 PM
Some are picking Wimax, LTE and UMB. I don’t remember what each companies globally are picking. I will try to locate some and then come back.
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muchdrama

Sep 25, 2007, 6:07 PM
nextel18 said:
You have any questions or concerns please ask and I will try to assist you. Either on LTE or UMB.


Yes, what websites do you copy & paste from?
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