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Handset Lemon Law Passed in Illinois

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Too much government!

whiskey7

Apr 27, 2007, 3:16 PM
The government has to get involved in the minutiae of cell phone providers' policies now??? 🙄

It is an individual's personal responsibility to check a cell phone provider's policy on defective hardware before signing up. If a person isn't comfortable with a provider's policies or the risk of having to pay out of pocket for a new device outweighs the benefit received from the phone service, THEN DON'T GET THE CELL PHONE.

Government laws and regulations always have unintended consequences that usually hurt the very people the law was ostensibly designed to help. In this case, if government requires providers to replace more handsets and/or charge less fees, all cellphone users will end up paying the cost for this through higher sub...
(continues)
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skyjet15

Apr 27, 2007, 3:33 PM
hey bud, if anything, the tech departments for these wireless carriers now have a greater incentive to wise up and fix your problems. And also, this could mean the end of shoddy refurb phones that carriers pass off as reliable wireless devices. Seriously, you pay $200-$300 for a great phone, only to have it not send texts after 3 mos and then you get this piece of crap replacement that, honestly, barely passes as a paperweight. I'm just saying that yeah, customer fees will go up, but not exponentially so, and in return we ultimately get better quality products.
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pennyless10

Apr 27, 2007, 5:38 PM
... better quality products? carriers will probubly stop carrying phones and resort to everyone paying full retail... and if they dont do that
why would i want to pay more everymonth so someone else can get a new phone instead of a refurb?
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muchdrama

Apr 27, 2007, 6:18 PM
skyjet15 said:
hey bud, if anything, the tech departments for these wireless carriers now have a greater incentive to wise up and fix your problems.


Yeah. And NOT screw us with a POS refurbed junker.
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sprint_guy

Apr 27, 2007, 6:58 PM
not sure how other carriers do it,but i know for us,most of our refurbs are actually brand new phones we never sold. and the ones that are actually refurbe/returned really arent that bad...
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nuckingfuts

Apr 28, 2007, 10:54 AM
sprint_guy said:
not sure how other carriers do it,but i know for us,most of our refurbs are actually brand new phones we never sold. and the ones that are actually refurbe/returned really arent that bad...



um.... if they are brand new phone that were never sold, THEN THEY ARE NOT REFURBS!!!!!! 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄
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katrina

Apr 28, 2007, 5:31 PM
its the same here, when a warranty claim or something is done almost all of the replacement phones are new, not refurbs. Also with a refurb keep in mind that a person actually goes through and tests the phone to make sure it meets the standards and is fit to be resold, very few new devices go through this level of testing.
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TechBoy2881

Apr 30, 2007, 11:51 AM
I think what sprint guy was saying is that phone manufacturers produce a set number of devices as seed stock for exchanges. These aren't necessarily refurbished devices, but they aren't new either.
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mogdog

May 1, 2007, 3:21 PM
My experience tells me that the refurbs are not tested all that well. If they were I would not see all the problems that we do. You can also send in a phone to the Manufacture and still get it back not fixed properly. I feel there is no oversight for quality control, and they try to get them back out as fast as they can, so they can try to keep the consumer happy, when in return, it aggravates them more.
If the Verizons, and the Motorolas in this world cannot oversee themselves any better, usually the government think they can. It is too bad that it has come to this, but all the people involved have no one to blame but themselves.
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muchdrama

May 2, 2007, 5:00 PM
mogdog said:
My experience tells me that the refurbs are not tested all that well. If they were I would not see all the problems that we do.


Now THAT's very true. Back when I was a wireless manager with Circuit City (when CC was offering Sprint, ATT, and Cingular), I often got the feeling customers were receiving refurbs which weren't tested at all.
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muchdrama

May 2, 2007, 4:58 PM
nuckingfuts said:
sprint_guy said:
not sure how other carriers do it,but i know for us,most of our refurbs are actually brand new phones we never sold. and the ones that are actually refurbe/returned really arent that bad...



um.... if they are brand new phone that were never sold, THEN THEY ARE NOT REFURBS!!!!!! 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄


Uh, that's actually a pretty good point.
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muchdrama

May 2, 2007, 4:57 PM
sprint_guy said:
not sure how other carriers do it,but i know for us,most of our refurbs are actually brand new phones we never sold. and the ones that are actually refurbe/returned really arent that bad...


Right, right, right..."refurbed phones are actually perfectly good phones that NEVER cause problems".

That's bull and you know it. Refurbed phones almost always cause problems.
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jskrenes

May 1, 2007, 3:05 PM
skyjet15 said:
hey bud, if anything, the tech departments for these wireless carriers now have a greater incentive to wise up and fix your problems.


Yeah. And NOT screw us with a POS refurbed junker.


No, what the tech departments will do is count the most minute scratch as "physical damage" and charge the customer full retail. If the carrier can "prove" physical damage, then they're in the free and clear from this ridiculous law. And since there is no way for the customer to get the handset back once it's sent in to the carrier, the customer is screwed.
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muchdrama

Apr 27, 2007, 6:17 PM
whiskey7 said:
The government has to get involved in the minutiae of cell phone providers' policies now??? 🙄

It is an individual's personal responsibility to check a cell phone provider's policy on defective hardware before signing up.


Oh, that's brilliant.

So what are we supposed to do? Sit in the retail store for an hour and read 90 paragraphs of fine print?

No. This is supposed to protect us from the carriers and their stupidity.
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colione112

Apr 27, 2007, 11:41 PM
How is it carriers stupidity? I would say it's consumers stupidity if they don't read any contract they are signing. I may not read a contract word for word, but I do skim anything I sign. If something catches my eye that doesn't look right or that I don't understand I ask about it.

I wouldn't mind seeing every carrier give up subsidies and require customers to either provide their own phone off the web, in a carrier store, or a true cell phone store (one that only sells phone, not service). You want service? Sure, go on across the street and get a phone, then come back n see me...

This would make people realize the true value of these pieces of electronics and maybe, just maybe they would treat them a little better.
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muchdrama

May 2, 2007, 4:52 PM
colione112 said:
How is it carriers stupidity?


How? Carriers purposely bury key points in an endless sea of fine print. Any law that protects from this is a good one.
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colione112

May 2, 2007, 5:06 PM
There needs to be fine print. Just as there will be fine print in this law (if it passes).

Which is why I'm a fan of ending subsidies (and contracts associated with subsidies).

Offer a basic plan, and if they want mobile to mobile, require a contract for that...

People now days hate long term commitments. As long as there are subsidies for new phones, there will be contracts. Do what the rest of the world does and let the customer pay the full price for equipment, that will show the true value of phones.

Subsidies were invented way back when cell phones were new and were a way to get people to try the service. This is so out dated, that it's ridiculous.
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muchdrama

May 2, 2007, 5:22 PM
colione112 said:
There needs to be fine print. Just as there will be fine print in this law (if it passes).

Which is why I'm a fan of ending subsidies (and contracts associated with subsidies).

Offer a basic plan, and if they want mobile to mobile, require a contract for that...

People now days hate long term commitments. As long as there are subsidies for new phones, there will be contracts. Do what the rest of the world does and let the customer pay the full price for equipment, that will show the true value of phones.

Subsidies were invented way back when cell phones were new and were a way to get people to try the service. This is so out dated, that it's ridiculous.


Great post.
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lancekalzas

Apr 30, 2007, 6:43 AM
Stupidity? Carriers sell service, manufacturers make phones. Can't take one thing and call it something else. Call it for what it is. This law is a very bad idea. Remember the law of unintended consequences. Government never takes it into consideration.
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muchdrama

May 2, 2007, 4:53 PM
lancekalzas said:
Stupidity? Carriers sell service, manufacturers make phones. Can't take one thing and call it something else. Call it for what it is. This law is a very bad idea. Remember the law of unintended consequences. Government never takes it into consideration.


Unintended consequences? Us being protected from utter tomfoolery is an unintended consequence?

Yeah...YOU should definitely have to pay the outrageous fee.
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deliriumfrenzy

May 1, 2007, 11:33 AM
muchdrama said:

So what are we supposed to do? Sit in the retail store for an hour and read 90 paragraphs of fine print?


Yes. Because anything that you sign, you should read. If it is as thick as a book, if you don't want to read through it, don't sign it. If you still want to sign it and don't want to read through it, don't complain when you get screwed. Because you just screwed yourself.
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muchdrama

May 2, 2007, 4:55 PM
deliriumfrenzy said:
muchdrama said:

So what are we supposed to do? Sit in the retail store for an hour and read 90 paragraphs of fine print?


Yes. Because anything that you sign, you should read. If it is as thick as a book, if you don't want to read through it, don't sign it. If you still want to sign it and don't want to read through it, don't complain when you get screwed. Because you just screwed yourself.


Blah, blah, blah...this law protects folks who didn't quite understand what they were told or read.

It happens. We're not all rocket scientists. Ever read the fine print? It can get pretty heady. This law protects us from carrier greed.
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deliriumfrenzy

May 2, 2007, 5:30 PM
If I can't understand it, I don't sign it.
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NoanswersonlyQs

May 2, 2007, 5:32 PM
honestly.. when have any of you read something all the way through and understood all of it?? I haven't and Im ok with legalize but some of it still confuses the crap out of me..
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deliriumfrenzy

May 2, 2007, 5:36 PM
Every contract I have ever signed I have read through. If I didn't understand something, I'd ask someone to explain it to me. If I didn't like their explanation, I'd take it to someone else and ask them.

I'm not the smartest guy ever, but I'm not stupid. I like to know what I'm getting into, because it is my responsibility to understand what I am putting my signature on. It requires a little patience, but in the end it is worth it, because if there is a clause that screws me over, I'd like to know about it before I agree to be screwed over.

Yes, contracts should be easier to understand, but until that happens, I'm going to read everything before I sign it.
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lancekalzas

May 2, 2007, 8:45 PM
Sounds like you need more patience....I read what I sign.
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muchdrama

May 3, 2007, 6:05 PM
deliriumfrenzy said:
If I can't understand it, I don't sign it.


You're one in a million, then...'cause most of us just don't read every word.
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attwork

May 2, 2007, 11:26 AM
muchdrama said:
whiskey7 said:
The government has to get involved in the minutiae of cell phone providers' policies now??? 🙄

It is an individual's personal responsibility to check a cell phone provider's policy on defective hardware before signing up.


Oh, that's brilliant.

So what are we supposed to do? Sit in the retail store for an hour and read 90 paragraphs of fine print?

No. This is supposed to protect us from the carriers and their stupidity.



the carriers stupidity? how bout your stupidity?...signing a two year contract without reading the terms and conditions and then complaining about it later....with some carriers you even have 30 days to read ...
(continues)
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muchdrama

May 2, 2007, 4:56 PM
attwork said:
muchdrama said:
whiskey7 said:
The government has to get involved in the minutiae of cell phone providers' policies now??? 🙄

It is an individual's personal responsibility to check a cell phone provider's policy on defective hardware before signing up.


Oh, that's brilliant.

So what are we supposed to do? Sit in the retail store for an hour and read 90 paragraphs of fine print?

No. This is supposed to protect us from the carriers and their stupidity.



the carriers stupidity? how bout your stupidity?...signing a two year contract without reading the terms and conditions and then complaining about it later....with some carri
...
(continues)
...
attwork

May 3, 2007, 7:31 PM
muchdrama said:
attwork said:
muchdrama said:
whiskey7 said:
The government has to get involved in the minutiae of cell phone providers' policies now??? 🙄

It is an individual's personal responsibility to check a cell phone provider's policy on defective hardware before signing up.


Oh, that's brilliant.

So what are we supposed to do? Sit in the retail store for an hour and read 90 paragraphs of fine print?

No. This is supposed to protect us from the carriers and their stupidity.



the carriers stupidity? how bout your stupidity?...signing a two year contract without reading the terms and conditions and then complaini
...
(continues)
...
muchdrama

May 4, 2007, 11:07 PM
attwork said:
muchdrama said:
attwork said:
muchdrama said:
whiskey7 said:
The government has to get involved in the minutiae of cell phone providers' policies now??? 🙄

It is an individual's personal responsibility to check a cell phone provider's policy on defective hardware before signing up.


Oh, that's brilliant.

So what are we supposed to do? Sit in the retail store for an hour and read 90 paragraphs of fine print?

No. This is supposed to protect us from the carriers and their stupidity.



the carriers stupidity? how bout your stupidity?...signing a two year contract without reading the terms
...
(continues)
...
colione112

Apr 27, 2007, 7:19 PM
This is going to be used as a means to get out of contract, not because a phone is bad, but because the person is pissed at the company. All they'll have to do is do 3 replacements for "insert a reason here", then innact the lemon law and get out of a contract they agreed to when they signed up for service.

I can't wait to see people with a wet phone say it isn't their fault and it's defective, then want an exchange...
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gozvzw

Apr 28, 2007, 9:15 AM
What will start to happen now is that Tech Support will be so tight at replacing phones to keep a custie from getting there 3 replacements. This will piss the custie off even more and WE will have to deal with that as an agent not the carrier. Hopefully they will actually start sending out decent FRU's that don't crap out in a few weeks. I am not sure about the other carriers but I do know that VZW has a no lemon policy where they will sent a new different model phone after at least 3 replacements to keep custies happy.

What I also see happening is custies coming in with a BS problem over and over to get out of contract or a new phone. This will suck if it goes through.
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phonemechanic

Apr 28, 2007, 5:15 PM
I can hear the technicians now:


Customer: My phone keeps dropping calls. I think it's defective.

Tech: Well, we know for a fact it isn't a problem with the network, but your phone seems to be working fine.



...then the classic line


I'm sorry, but we can't duplicate the problem so there is nothing that we can do

🤣 🤣 🤣
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colione112

Apr 28, 2007, 6:53 PM
Cingular/ATT has the same policy. After 3 bad phones, they change the model to an equal model, sometimes even upgrading it if the customer is persistant.
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alejandro

Apr 30, 2007, 9:44 AM
It's your fault for selling your state congressman a motorola.
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