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Verizon Asks Vodafone To Sell Back Stake

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Monkey See Money Do

sangyup81

Mar 12, 2006, 4:28 PM
The timing of this is kinda funny don't you guys think?

But this is a good thing. It shows Verizon takes AT&T/Cingular seriously and will do what it takes to be #1.
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 4:39 PM
the time isnt funny at all, becuase this is another period in which vodafone can opt to option they have with verizon.. there are points in the year they can and can not..

but this is also expected especially since of the T and bell south merger.. now it makes more sense to do it so they can control verizon wireless instead of a 55% control.

well, in the wireless market, verizon wireless will always dominate cingular, but in the landline business that is where verizon will struggle especially if this merger goes through.

that is why verizon should be on a buying spree now..

1. buy out vodafone's stake
2. maybe buy vodafone all together
3. buy out alltel.
4. wait for qwest to go chapter 11 then buy them.
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aj2086

Mar 12, 2006, 5:22 PM
Verizon buying Vodafone all together is just laughable. Vodafone is a much larger company that Verizon, it will and could never happen.
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 5:38 PM
well, i said that maybe that would happen, becuase frankly it could. it would easily pass regulatory from both EU and USA. dont be so quickly say that it wont happen. there are things in this world that might not happen but did. (an example; the break up of ATT a few decades ago and now they are back and buying)

there are others also.

the more possible situation is that verizon would buy out vodafone's stake.

it amazing how you only addressed that statement. perhaps addressing the others i made.
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aj2086

Mar 12, 2006, 7:57 PM
I only addressed that statement because it was the only one that made no sense. Verizon buying the ENITRE Vodafone operation is like a person on welfare trying to buy a 15 million dollar penthouse in NYC. They can't afford it.
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 8:06 PM
hmmm...

they cant afford it? well yea, but many companies who buy out other companies cant afford them either. do you know how they "buy" them? either 1. issuing shares and/or 2. issuing debt. when T is/was on their buying spree, they bought them with debt and issuing shares. when sprint bought nextel, they bought them with shares and cash. when cingular bought out ATTWS, they made their parents borrow money to pay for them. there are others also in this industry and in others that are the same thing. they barely can pay by "cash" they always use debt, unless the transaction is small.

the point is; anything can happen and if they are already going to "buy" them for $50B might as well add on another $100B to buy the whole company.
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barryefau

Mar 12, 2006, 8:06 PM
with Verizon Communications is one of the top ten largest companies in the US.. i think it has some money to do whatever it needs.. I can't see it buying Vodafone, but anything can happen ehh
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 8:25 PM
thats my point.. anything can happen and with the recent purchases, none of them had money to buy them, but issued stock and assumed debt.. that is how this country and world is run.. issuing shares and assumed debt..

as you said and as i said.. anything can happen..

if you are already going to pay $50B why not pay the other $100B?
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smd

Mar 12, 2006, 9:47 PM
It won't happen---it makes no sense to buy out vodafone. They both have opposing technologies. It wouldn't be worth it.
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 9:58 PM
it makes plenty of sense buying vodafone, especially if they are going to unnoficially over them $50B for verizon wireless and another $100B is nothing..

take a look at http://www.phonescoop.com/news/discuss.php?fm =m&ff=1639&fi=562441
my analysis with regards to the price of the companies by subscribers times by $2000 each subscriber.

they would be a huge company and especially in the wireless game where that is the true money maker becuase wireline is frankly dying a slow death with growth.

combined company based on subscribers times $2000 would be $354B with at least $94B in worldwide assets and finally with worldwide joint ventures and 51%+ ownership.

regarding they have differnt technologies... what about sprint buying ...
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alpha1

Mar 12, 2006, 10:08 PM
Sprint vs Nextel argument is not a valid analogy for merging CDMA/ GSM.

A valid case can be put forth that iDen would not have survived at an independent Nextel for more than 5-10 years in the future, simply because iDen did not provide the road map to broadband data rates.

GSM as well as CDMA provide those business cases in HSDPA and EvDO respectively.. Hence discounting the fact that different technologies dont matter considering the sprint nextel merger doesnt work.

Hence in all probability Nextel would have bailed out of iDen into one of the other 2 (and my guess wld be GSM if it were independent, since iDen & GSM are more similar) in a half decade or so...
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 10:12 PM
it is a very good analogy.. he said they have differnt technologies is a big deal.. its not. becuase of nextel and sprint..

actually just becuase you have iden doesnt make a differnce because the neccessary bandwidth is there and the speeds are ok, however, they can always overlay it with ev-do rev a, wimax, td-cdma, and other 3g or 4g technologies. nextel would have to spend money to upgrade and overlay their network but they would always do a dual band type device like carriers do now..
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AshDizzle

Mar 13, 2006, 1:35 PM
We aren't talking about Verizon buying out ALL of Vodafone, it's just their share of the company. Vodfone does not operate at GSM network in the United States.
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nextel18

Mar 13, 2006, 3:02 PM
but i was mentioning about it...

doesnt make a difference that voda has different technologies.. remember dual mode/band phones? (cdma/gsm) they do exist.
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dave73

Mar 12, 2006, 11:57 PM
In the case of Verizon possibly buying out Vodafone seems like a longshot. I don't see it happening, but as people mentioned, anything's possible. For Vodafone being GSM & Verizon being CDMA, if Verizon acquired Vodafone today, they might invest in CDMA in countries where CDMA is already being used in countries that Vodafone is already in, but would have no choice, but to use GSM in the European Union as that is the only digital standard used in that part of Europe. But something like that might allow Verizon Wireless to expand their CDMA/GSM handset lineup to include phones from Motorola & maybe Nokia for world travelers. For those users, they would want a better selection than the current Samsung phones that Verizon Wireless has now.
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nextel18

Mar 13, 2006, 2:53 PM
as i mentioned before it doesnt really make a difference in technology becuase they can always do dual band/mode phones (gsm/cdma) like they have now and that will allow their footprint to be huge.
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stufried

Mar 15, 2006, 12:33 AM
The U.S. phone market is not focused on international. Verizon as a CDMA carrier is probably not positioned to fight GSM carriers head-to-head in this area. Verizon has released a small amount of Dual Mode phones that handle the European GSM networks and has offered a roaming plan for its international travelers. Like everyone else in town, they charge way too much, but most of these travellers are corporate types who just expense it anyway.

Verizon wants a strategic relationship with a pan-European carrier, but it doesn't want to own one. Vodafone, T-Mobile, and Orange are pulling back on their investments there and the European Commission is riding them about high roaming rates.

I'm no expert, but I think Verizon only wants to ha...
(continues)
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muchdrama

Mar 13, 2006, 12:27 PM
nextel18 said:
well, i said that maybe that would happen, becuase frankly it could.


Maybe. As in "maybe" Clint Eastwood is a fairy.
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xhale

Mar 12, 2006, 6:42 PM
no troll. they are not BUYING VODAFONE they are mearly buying back the 45% that vodafone owns. i would say keep an eye on verizon (land line) stock... it might be going up... i feel a verizon wireless/land line merger. and for the record vodafone is no where near the size of verizon altogether.
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 7:33 PM
xhale..

i mentioned that "maybe" that verizon would buy out Vodafone as a whole, not just vodafone's stake. i also said that it could happen, but probably not since anything can happen in this world. ($150B+ isnt so bad) i mean if verizon will be paying $50-60B+ why not add another $100B to buy out the whole company? the logic seems to be there, but would they do it? probably not.

so no need to "yell" at him.
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alpha1

Mar 12, 2006, 8:20 PM
how can u say VF is smaller than Verizon?

Is there a seperate trading vehicle for VZW? I am almost sure there is none... so probably the 100 billion market cap for the VZ stock is it..

Current VF market cap at the recent exchange rates is around 130 billion..
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 9:06 PM
yea.. i dont think that was a fair share, but verizon has wireless and wireline, while vodafone has basically all wireless.

verizon wireless doesnt have a stock.

how much do you think verizon wireless as a whole is worth?
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alpha1

Mar 12, 2006, 10:01 PM
considering ATTWS was bought for about 40 Billion, Cingular should be worth about 90-100 Billion. Thus Verizon Wireless should be about 5-10 Billion discount to the current Cingular..

hence my guestimate would be about 85B and I think your post based on subscribers valuing VZW at about 2K a subscriber kinda makes about the same figures (round about)
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 10:10 PM
i dont care what ATTWS was paid for i care about the total subscribers times $2000, which is very conservative for this industry. with the sprint situation they paid a lot more, but then again, nextel's subscribers pay an arpu of $68, which is more then cingular and verizon..

but yes, those figures are pretty close..

verizon= $102B
cingular= $102B

verizon's assets are more valuable than cingular.. so lets put that in mind. in addition more valuable. (churn and lifetime revenue per user)

i mean combine verizon and vodafone it would be a huge company with worldwide assets and over $372B (it would be more becuase of joint ventures but i didnt count that) and over $94B in assets. (spectrum and towers)
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 10:13 PM
cingular= $108B
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BegToDiffer

Mar 12, 2006, 5:51 PM
I agree that Verizon's first move is to get the remaining stake from Vodafone. Wireless is the money driver for the company and getting all the revenuse vs. 55% would be well worth it. Beyond that, I don't see that Verizon needs to do much buying. Aquiring Qwest would be a waste of money (given that Qwest does not have a wireless division and wireline subscribers continue to fall). This also appies to the Sprint/Alltel landline divisions. Given their roaming agreements with Alltel, why bother at this point and I think Verizon would prefer to have Sprint iron out all of the intergration headaches with Nextel before moving to purchase them. I think a lot of at&t's merger with BellSouth is to get total control of Cingular and as long as Verizon...
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 6:11 PM
well the comment i made about buying qwest would be only if qwest goes chapter 11, becuase they do have a very good network but the only thing is their huge debt load and their problems with their growth.. by the way, wireline for the whole industry is basically going to die soon, and wireless is going to dominate. that is the future of this industry. what i mean by wireline is with the telephone in your home, not with dsl or cable or fios.

again, verizon's network (landline), cable(dsl) internet isnt even close to what the combined T would have and that is why i said it would be smart to go after the companies who will be spinning off their units or already have them such as qwest. (obviously under chapter 11. lol) alltel would be a ver...
(continues)
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alpha1

Mar 12, 2006, 6:36 PM
Dont make a FOOL of yourself.. by making statements such as Verizon buying out Vodafone..

Just to make this point.. Vodafone is probably the world's TOP 10 RETAILERS.. and its not even in the retail business!!!!

Vodafone is the equivalent of 1980's Ma Bell of the wireless world (with no geographical restrictions unlike the old Bell) ..

These 2 statements should give some idea of how BIG the company is...
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 6:50 PM
wow. you have got to read better..

this is what i said "maybe buy vodafone all together" . maybe is a word that is used to say a 50-50 chance that it could happen. will it happen? probably not. could it? yes.

i know how big vodafone is you dont have to explain it to me, but as mentioned before to the other person who just mentioned about that statement, anything can happen. by the way, you 2 seem to be alike since you dont address any of my other statements i made. perhaps it would be better doing that?

vodafone would be going for about $150B, which isnt too far fetched. (with a 10-15% premium on top of its share price) it could be an all stock deal just like the Bellsouth/T merger, although it would mess up verizon's shares, but...
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alpha1

Mar 12, 2006, 8:03 PM
The thing is simple, when such ridiculous statements are made, that takes away from the entire conversation, however useful the remaining info might or could be.

150+ Billion Dollars (considering the Pound/ Dollar rates remain where they are now) is not that easy for a 100 Billion dollar company to come up with, especially when there is no synergy between the two operations (no wireline for VF, GSM/UMTS for VF vs CDMA for VZW, assuming VZW comes 100% under the Verizon roof). Hence there is ALMOST NO CHANCE (not 50-50 as you say)

Infact Verizon could be better served with buying Alltel wireless/ Sprint Nextel Wireless or maybe even Rogers Canada (i think its CDMA, i cld be wrong) or some Mexican CDMA operator or for that matter even so...
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 8:24 PM
nothing is rediciolous especially in this world and industry.. since nothing is really bought with cash any more but assumed debt, anything can happen. they are already offering a unoffical $50B to vodafone, might as well just buy them outright and have their worldwide operations.

sprint/nextel and verizon merger would never go through unless there would be many divestitutres.. ( you must not read my posts becuase i mentioned this) i also mentioned about alltel.

they dont need to buy any mexican or canadian operator now, they need to focus on their united states carrier that is truely the best, fastest, and the most profitable wireless company.

comcast or time warner could also do some buying.. i heard rumors of a comcast buying ...
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 8:26 PM
"so it doesnt make too bad of sense to look especially if they are already going to be paying half of what vodafone's worth."

sorry... paying another $100B
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alpha1

Mar 12, 2006, 8:35 PM
There are also "geo-political" issues to worry about...

UK has 2 big-name companies to its credit.. Vodafone, Royal Dutch Shell (well kinda UK) and there are some other big companies such as HSBC but you can probably name all of them in a few minutes..

Considering how Mittal is getting the rap for trying to buy Arcelor, what makes us think that Vodafone, the pride and joy of UK, will not face opposition (and I mean serious opposition) from the citizens of UK, for getting bought by a big-name US company!!!
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 8:47 PM
there are companies that have operations all around the world, either buy buying or other means, and their base regulators dont seem to mind.. (if they dont have any terror connections then there should be no problems.. like this whole PORT situation had a lot of complications and was denied becuase of US pressure becuase of terrorist connections.)


what about Lenovo buying out IBM's computer business? (lenovo is chinese)

there are others but i cant think of it on the top of my head..
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ConvergysSlave

Mar 12, 2006, 9:34 PM
Rogers is GSM. But both Bell Canada and Telus are CDMA opperations in Canada.
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aj2086

Mar 12, 2006, 8:03 PM
You're ridiculous. It CANNOT happen, at all. Vodafone is huge and would never sell, if anything they would buy. Vodafone has 180 million customers worldwide. Verizon has oh, 50 million? $150B is an extremely under estimated for Vodafone, Verizon could never afford to buy them, end of story.
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 8:38 PM
as i said anything can happen...

you are making this a big deal just becuase i said anything and maybe...

by the way $150B is based on their share price as of friday plus a premium on top of that divided by their total shares outstanding..
so it isnt undervalued vod shareholders are getting a 10-15% premium, which is standard in takeovers especially in stock.

so could never afford them? you are wrong.. no one buys other companies with cash.. i mentioned this before, they either 1. issue more shares or 2. increase their debt. that is the life of this industry as well as others..

cingular couldnt afford ATTWS..

T def cant be making these purchases they have been doing..

verizon couldnt afford mci and whoever else they bou...
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alpha1

Mar 12, 2006, 8:42 PM
again.. where would the synergies come from Smile

VF is not wireline,

VF is GSM/UMTS/HSDPA
VZW is CDMA/ 1x EVDO (assuming VZW first buys out VF stake in VZW).

plus why would a giant the size of Vodafone Wireless want to invest too much in Qualcomm technology..
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 8:55 PM
becuase qualcomm is ramping up a lot of market share in wcdma (it is small still especially against TXN).. they already have an 85% market share in cdma and it works.. TXN works too, but Qcom does such a better job with their R&D and other things..

fyi; qualcomm and vodafone are actually in hsdpa trials. probably could do their media flow and other technologies..

i said "how do these companies do it? well they hope to get some synergies which they all are going to get and increase their growth which they hope they are going to get.."

i didnt mention about verizon and a vodafone merger.. there probably wouldnt be many synergies, but many of their operations and mangment would be 1 instead of many like they have now.. control would ...
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nextel18

Mar 12, 2006, 4:40 PM
in addition to the buying partners i said, they also should look at sprint's embarq (when it would be spunoff), and alltel's wireline business when they spin off it.
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dca

Mar 13, 2006, 1:30 PM
"Embarq" is happening. Just got my one-page letter in the mail... This could indeed be interesting.
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nextel18

Mar 13, 2006, 3:02 PM
yes, i know that they are happening and doing quite well, and the spin off will be very soon.

yes, it could be interesting especially since verizon could be in trouble becuase of bellsouth/T merger.
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