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Cingular 3G To Launch November 1

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UMTS will eventually win

nbostic

Oct 14, 2005, 9:05 PM
A) I've used a UMTS card in Seattle for some time and it is significantly faster than the claims currently. I definitely think this is a safe estimate so people aren't insanely pi$$ed when they fork over the money for it and it underperforms.

B) Cingular has EDGE almost completely nationwide. Much faster speed to fall back on if need be, plus I'm sure they have agreements with all the providers to assist in the UMTS rollout.

c) And this is the big one everybody's missing: You can talk and browse at the same time on UMTS. Might not be as important for laptop card users, but (although they're a high dollar segment) isn't the biggest segment. More people buy Treo's, BlackBerry's and the like than laptop cards. They want voice (via bl...
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 9:36 PM
Sorry, but you can't really beat something with nothing. And for at least the next year, for most folks who'll want wireless broadband outside of the home or wi-fi hotspots, that's what you have a choice of... EV-DO or nothing. Cingy's way behind in 3G deployment, and T-Mobile's just starting to roll out... EDGE.

Its kind of Verizon's game to lose at this point. They could price too high and/or fail to promote their 3G, but if they are halfway smart they will have picked up a lot of 3G customers before Cingy's 3G even enters said customers' markets. And as we all know, VZW is pretty darn good at retaining customers once they have 'em. πŸ™‚

Not saying that Cingy can't do anything, but if you had to pick a 3G side to quarterback as an exe...
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nbostic

Oct 14, 2005, 9:45 PM
I agree that network implementation has been slow, however customer service has been much better when I call in lately.

I do, however, have insider information, not from any of the cell companies but from a major (and I mean major) corporation who develops servers and tower equipment that then gets rebranded by the likes of Lucent, Nokia and Ericsson. Their roadmap for wireless data is pretty short on the EV-DO regarding throughput and coverage and they've put their money behind the UMTS options.

Also, at least in my area, I still get faster speeds on my EDGE card than my roommates EV-DO card and he's supposedly got the right coverage and plans for it.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 9:54 PM
Not to pooh-pooh your insider information nbostic, but if I had a dime for every bit of 'insider info' I've heard that's ended up being wrong... πŸ˜‰

I guess we'll see. Cingy is certainly trying hard, and as in football, the miraculous come-from-behind victory is always possible (though not probable).

However, for what its worth, I think 3G may be the least of Cingy's problems, as the 3rd quarter results next week will spotlight. Down in the trenches, VZW really is seriously kicking their arse, and if Cingy can't fix that, everything else is kind of moot.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 10:56 AM
VZW did the "come from behind" thing when they went from AMPS to CDMA. TDMA carriers already had TDMA implemented in many areas before CDMA even became available.

With TDMA having most of the market before CDMA goes live, TDMA will be the future, right?
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 1:26 PM
Yes, VZW did come from behind. But they are the best-executing, best-run company in the game. Cingy isn't. That's why I have a hard time imagining them pulling off what Verizon did.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 3:12 PM
If Cingular does come from behing it will be because of risk-taking and energy, not because of organization and execution. haha 😁
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 4:16 PM
Actually, how you run your business in the trenches is tremendously important. Ask a Cingular rep.

Many of them seem to be pretty down because they say they're getting pinched on commissions more now than ever. The guys in the call centers are unhappy at how the call centers are run. Morale overall... is not very good. Those things matter a lot, even more than 3G, actually. Because if your reps aren't happy and are turning over too fast, that hurts you. If the customer calls up CS and gets a pissed off, negative CS rep, that hurts you too.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 4:49 PM
I am a Cingular Rep and I do know what goes on inside. OK, store manager. But still, Cingular does have some strengths too. They're very entrenched in the Hispanic markets, they're more flexible when it comes to things like changing rate plans, and of course the flexibility of having SIM cards.

And my commissions have actually risen since the commission change that started in September.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 7:48 PM
Hey, for all you know, I AM a store manager. I'm not, but its fun to say. πŸ˜‰

Ok, so you're a Cingy rep. If so, then you know the morale problems up close and personal. What do you think caused them, and what should Cingy do to alleviate them?
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sangyup81

Oct 17, 2005, 6:59 PM
Here's my POV then. Cingular's employees on average are less mature than Verizon's.

My friend is a store manager at a Verizon store in the mall so I hear about their hiring practices. They look for things like how long someone's been working at the same company, ect. Cingular is a little more lax. AT&T was a LOT more lax from what I hear (that friend was an AT&T rep before switching to Verizon).

Cingular makes a change in commissions that gives you less money on certain sales but WAY more money on others. Sure, it's a lot harder to get those high commission sales but isn't the right thing to reward those who get difficult sales?

My overall activation numbers have gone down but my agent compensation has gone up. I'm okay with t...
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pauldg

Oct 17, 2005, 9:58 PM
the upsell u speak of is from$39.99 to $59.99 rate plans. Right there on your brochure it says "Double your Minutes!" right above $59.99 - they give u all the tools.

another example is a 2 line deal. instead of going with a FT plan, push 2 single lines (customer gets way more minutes this way, and the boyfriend doesn't have to take the stupid risk of signing a 2yr for his girl's phone) if you can do this and still upsell them to$60 plans instead of $40, that's a good salesman
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MobileMogul

Oct 17, 2005, 7:14 PM
They're very entrenched in the Hispanic markets, they're more flexible when it comes to things like changing rate plans, and of course the flexibility of having SIM cards.

Cool flexability to have your phone stolen easier! And everyone is entrenched in the hispanic market, not just Cingy!

U R not a rep! πŸ™„
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tropicalhaven

Oct 17, 2005, 9:51 PM
MobileMogul said:
They're very entrenched in the Hispanic markets, they're more flexible when it comes to things like changing rate plans, and of course the flexibility of having SIM cards.

Cool flexability to have your phone stolen easier! And everyone is entrenched in the hispanic market, not just Cingy!

U R not a rep! πŸ™„

Actually, just report the IMEI stolen and you're pretty good to go. People have trouble keeping track of things like serial numbers, thier financial sitatuion, and thier children, but if you keep a record of all that stuff, it's relatively easy to report a phone stolen (in addition to the SIM card).

During the hurricane aftermaths, it was nice to have a couple of extra GSM...
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MobileMogul

Oct 18, 2005, 6:32 PM
So you are going to try an make me believe that taking out a sim card and replacing it with someone else's is not an easy way to steal a phone.

I guess that is why so many phones are stolen all over Europe.

At least with ESN's they can track who activated your stolen phone.

Also, changing from one ESN that you own to another is as easy as a call away.

If you are a manager, than that explains even more about Cingular!
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tropicalhaven

Oct 18, 2005, 9:08 PM
The IMEI is International Mobile Equipment Identifier. If you report the *handset* stolen, it prevents someone else from putting a SIM card into the phone and using it.

At least with IMEIs, they can track who put thier SIM card into your stolen phone!

Plus, there is not a current shortage of IMEIs right now, like there is a shortage of ENSs.

If you'd like to know more about the current ESN situation facing the CDMA industry, please visit this link:

https://www.phonescoop.com/articles/meid/ »

And, what does my job have anything to do with Cingular? Just because I'm an advocate of SIM cards doesn't mean I'm a manager at Cingular! I don't assume you're a manager at QualComm just because you're an advocate of ESNs.
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sangyup81

Oct 18, 2005, 9:48 AM
I'm not a Rep, I'm a store manager.

And Cingular dominates the Hispanic market in Northern Virginia. Maybe I was being a little presumtuous assuming it's like that everywhere else.
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SystemShock

Oct 18, 2005, 4:17 PM
Hum, I'm Latino and I dont feel like Cingular dominates me. What the H?

Btw a lot of us, not all but a lot, like "latino" better than "hispanic". Maybe cus hispanic gets turned into a race slur so easily when the haters shorten it.
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sangyup81

Oct 18, 2005, 5:37 PM
Hispanic is what's in the Federal forms so until that changes, Hispanic is a PC term for people of Latin heritage.
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MobileMogul

Oct 18, 2005, 6:35 PM
Phone theft is a common problem in Europe, 300,000 are stolen each year in Great Britain alone.

This is taken from another recent article on this site.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 18, 2005, 9:13 PM
If you have your phone stolen (or lost), you should report both the SIM and the IMEI as stolen (or lost).

If your car is stolen, wouldn't you report both the license plate number and the VIN to the authorities and your insurance company? Or would you just say "My green car was stolen. I guess I'll just have to buy another one."?

In fact, GSM phone theft has the potential of being even more traceable than CDMA phone theft, because the system will extract both the IMEI of the phone, and the SIM authentication number, so if the IMEI is flagged, they can detect, by the SIM, which subscriber has the phone.
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SystemShock

Oct 18, 2005, 11:41 PM
Who cares what the Feds think? They can't even get elderly black ladies outta New Orleans before they drown.

Trust me, not alla us brown folks like the term Hispanic much. Some think its a'ight, others prefer Latino or Latino-American. You don't hear me callin people gringo just cause its in the official Latino Street Dictionaryβ„’ now do ya?
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MobileMogul

Oct 18, 2005, 6:37 PM
Many apologies. I was unaware that it offended.
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SystemShock

Oct 18, 2005, 11:47 PM
Its a'ight man, its more a preference than an offense thing. No need to apologize.

The people who want to offend, you can tell them a mile away, cus they make it real clear where they're comin from.
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MobileMogul

Oct 18, 2005, 6:33 PM
When you assume you make an a$$ out of you and yourself.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 6:46 PM
BetterThanJake said:
Yes, VZW did come from behind. But they are the best-executing, best-run company in the game. Cingy isn't. That's why I have a hard time imagining them pulling off what Verizon did.

Be careful what you say. Nextel18 will have your head on a platter when he realizes you don't believe that Sprint-Nextel is going to be the best run game and take over the world.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 8:15 PM
tropicalhaven said:
BetterThanJake said:
Yes, VZW did come from behind. But they are the best-executing, best-run company in the game. Cingy isn't. That's why I have a hard time imagining them pulling off what Verizon did.

Be careful what you say. Nextel18 will have your head on a platter when he realizes you don't believe that Sprint-Nextel is going to be the best run game and take over the world.

ROFL! True dat. 😁

I kind of feel for Sprint-Nextel, actually. They are about to run into the same kind of network and corporate integation problems Cingy has, but its probably going to be even worse- Cingy and ATTW at least used compatible technologies.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 9:26 PM
Well, I don't think Sprint-Nextel's will be *that* bad, definitely worse than Cingular's. It's simple...the Nextel network is going to be shut down and everyone migrated to Sprint. And with the talk of the New Sprint, like the New Cingular, it's apparent the Nextel brand isn't going to play an important role in combined company.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 10:54 AM
I think I would have to agree that the life of EV-DO is going to be shortlived. Why else would Qualcomm buy Flarion for OFDM?
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 9:26 AM
Verizon can do everything right but at this point, they are limited by technology.

Best thing for Verizon to do is a hostile takeover of Qualcomm because that company doesn't have an answer to HSDPA right now.

Plus imagine all the money Verizon will save once they own the rights to CDMA. 😁
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 11:08 AM
VZ would never be able to buy Qualcomm...there would be an antitrust issue, because VZ would then be able to outrageously raise royalties for its competitors, giving it an illegal advantage.

Now, imagine all the money that VZ would have to fork over for legal issues...
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 1:20 PM
LOL. That sounds like a replay of the old GSM vs CDMA pissing matches that have been going on for years.

As in "Verizon is awesome, but because they're stuck with CDMA, their GSM competitors will eventually put them out of business with superior technology, better phones, etc. etc.."

Yet here we are today, and Verizon is completely kicking Cingular's GSM butt... with CDMA.

Guess either CDMA was a lot better technology than the GSM zealots counted on, or Verizon simply ran their business better than the competition. Probably its a little of both.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 3:10 PM
Well UMTS is actually a CDMA-based technology used over a GSM network called W-CDMA which is a Qualcomm technology.

The real kicker IS that Qualcomm is developing the technology FOR BOTH. So I'm not saying Verizon will lose because Qualcomm sucks, I'm saying Verizon will lose because Qualcomm is screwing them.

Why? There are more GSM customers than CDMA therefore developing the W-CDMA path means more money for those greedy punks.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 4:10 PM
Actually, if its all about Qualcomm maximizing revenue, then its not in their interest to 'screw' either party.

What would actually be smarter would be for them to help each side equally, so as to maintain an 'arms race' hyper-competitive atmosphere where everyone is eager to upgrade to the latest technology on their side of the fence all the time, and pay through the nose for it.

Which is what I predict they'll do, long-term. Qualcomm isn't dumb.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 6:53 PM
sangyup81 said:
Well UMTS is actually a CDMA-based technology used over a GSM network called W-CDMA which is a Qualcomm technology.

The real kicker IS that Qualcomm is developing the technology FOR BOTH. So I'm not saying Verizon will lose because Qualcomm sucks, I'm saying Verizon will lose because Qualcomm is screwing them.

UMTS is no more a Qualcomm technology than the English language is legal property of England, and they get to collect roayalties from every person who speaks it. The W in W-CDMA stands for Wideband, and Qualcomm does not have any wideband CDMA technology that it developed, or else it would be collecting royalties.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 8:20 PM
tropicalhaven said:
UMTS is no more a Qualcomm technology than the English language is legal property of England, and they get to collect roayalties from every person who speaks it. The W in W-CDMA stands for Wideband, and Qualcomm does not have any wideband CDMA technology that it developed, or else it would be collecting royalties.

Qualcomm actually does own about 20 percent of the patents on the W-CDMA technology, and also of course provides a lot of W-CDMA chipsets and solutions.

Various handset makers and NTTDoCoMo own most of the rest of the patents:

http://news.com.com/Qualcomm+mum+on+licensing+plan/2 ... »
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