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Cingular 3G To Launch November 1

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WOW!! Blazing Speed!

Humdizzle

Oct 14, 2005, 12:22 PM
🙄 ..."Cingular expects throughput speeds of 220-320 Kbps on the network." What's the point?!? Both Verizon and Sprint have launched EV-DO networks that average 400-700kbps., peaking @ 2Mbps! It's like rolling out a VGA camera phone when everyone else is using 1.3megapixel and 2megapixel. Is there something I'm missing here??? If not, this is just pathetic!
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muchdrama

Oct 14, 2005, 1:07 PM
Humdizzle said:
🙄 ..."Cingular expects throughput speeds of 220-320 Kbps on the network." What's the point?!? Both Verizon and Sprint have launched EV-DO networks that average 400-700kbps., peaking @ 2Mbps! It's like rolling out a VGA camera phone when everyone else is using 1.3megapixel and 2megapixel. Is there something I'm missing here??? If not, this is just pathetic!


In the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami area, I've averaged 750kbps topping out at 1mbps on Verizon's network...speeds have only dropped to 500kbps on a few locations. It'll take a Cingular the better part of a year to cover the area Verizon does now. Speeds should increase steadily during that time.
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sangyup81

Oct 14, 2005, 2:25 PM
And you guys do know the latency is better for HSDPA than EV-DO right?
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Humdizzle

Oct 14, 2005, 3:50 PM
How about underpromise and deliver? What would the benifit for a consumer be to go w/ Cingular in this circumstance, today, over Verizon or Sprint?
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springaf

Oct 14, 2005, 4:49 PM
the higher speed potential. when full hsdpa comes, it will be capable of a 14m. obviously cingular won't run it that fast consistently, but has guaranteed 3.6m. Guaranteed. that means higher speed bursts up to 7m. ev-do-r cant consistently do 3.6.
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Roadkill

Oct 14, 2005, 4:57 PM
Well, there's always the fact that the Bluetooth on your phone won't be gimped like it is on Verizon and Sprint...

Not having to pay to easily get those nice pictures off your phone counts for a lot for some people. 😉

But as already mentioned, there's also HSDPA's eventual higher throughput and lower latency.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 7:38 PM
Roadkill said:
Well, there's always the fact that the Bluetooth on your phone won't be gimped like it is on Verizon and Sprint...

Even that may be changing... the Nokia 6256i is coming out very soon for VZW, and allegedly with uncrippled Bluetooth.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 10:21 AM
BetterThanJake said:
Even that may be changing... the Nokia 6256i is coming out very soon for VZW, and allegedly with uncrippled Bluetooth.

I'll believe it when I see it.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 1:27 PM
tropicalhaven said:
BetterThanJake said:
Even that may be changing... the Nokia 6256i is coming out very soon for VZW, and allegedly with uncrippled Bluetooth.

I'll believe it when I see it.

LOL! Me too, actually. 😁

But I think there's hope.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 2:59 PM
perhaps this is the only way Nokia agreed to make a Verizon phone? if so, I say Go Nokia! 🙂
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 4:01 PM
Wish I could agree, as I do like Nokia, but I doubt that they are that principled.

One of the big delaying factors may be the Verizon UI that VZW wants to put on all of the phones it offers, eventually. Nokia has historically been a big believer in differentiating its own products from other phone makers, at the expense of carriers being able to differentiate themselves from other carriers via changing some aspects of the phones. That has caused something of a tug-of-war between Nokia and carriers.

However, not too long ago Nokia took a pretty big hit in marketshare, and has started to sing a different tune. More phones tailored to what the carriers (not Nokia) want, and more of an emphasis on the CDMA market.

My guess is that Ver...
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 5:48 PM
Yeah, there is hope. Probably a higher fee for the uncrippled Bluetooth, like $50 more or something.

Didn't Moto's V710 have file transfer? Then VZW branded ones didn't?
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 7:53 PM
Don't own a 710, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't have file transfer enabled. Rumor is that if the 6256i arrives with uncrippled BT, there'll be a software update to the 710 that'll uncripple its BT as well. Makes sense, since you have might have a customer riot on your hands if you don't. But its all speculation right now.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 9:31 PM
But when the first fit with the V710 arose, wasn't there "soon going to be a software update that will enable file transfer"? I think that was even pointed out during the proceedings.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 1:55 AM
I think that was a pipe dream, frankly. No VZW phone is going to have uncrippled BT until VZW is ready to change their minds on the issue. Hopefully the 6256i is the beginning of that.
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Humdizzle

Oct 14, 2005, 9:22 PM
Ever heard of expandable memory? There are other ways to go about a file transfer than bluetooth. 😛

Don't you think by the time Cingular rolls out their "complete, up to speed HSDPA", CDMA will then be rolling out newer versions of EV-DO w/ larger packets?
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sangyup81

Oct 14, 2005, 5:23 PM
HSDPA Latency: 30ms
EV-DO Latency: 300ms
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 8:15 PM
Well sangy, if you guys get to cry "Cingy will get the data speeds up!" in response to the fact that you are, right now, a lot slower (220-320 kbps vs EVDO's current 400-700 kbps, with 2Mbps burst), then I think the EVDO folks get to point out the fact that EVDO Rev A will greatly reduce latency.

Overall, the two technologies will be leapfrogging each other, with one important distinction, at least for the next couple of years: EVDO will be available in a LOT more places than UMTS/HSPDA, since Verizon is a year or more ahead in its 3G network deployment. Now THAT'S some serious 'latency'.
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RUFF1415

Oct 14, 2005, 9:33 PM
Jake, I seriously doubt that EVDO will be available in a lot more places. When it comes to rolling out new networks there is none faster than Cingular (after they actually start rolling). Cingular completed the entire GSM overlay of their network six months before expected, and it was expected to be completed in record time to begin with.

I'm pretty sure we're going to be seeing those 18 cities expanding to 40+ in December and on a more national scale by January 1. Don't underestimate what Cingular can do.

And don't forget, Cingular has a larger native network than Verizon to provide 3G services in.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 9:48 PM
I dunno, RUFF... so far the tally is EVDO in 84 markets, UMTS in 6... with UMTS expanding to 15-18 (depending how you count) by November.

Do you honestly think that UMTS will be in 40+ cities a mere month after that? Every news report I've read on that matter has said UMTS in "15-20 cities by the end of the year." The current announcement is simply a fulfillment of that promise. If Cingy was anything like on track to be in 40+ cities in December, or on a 'more national scale' by Jan 1, they would be trumpeting that news to high heaven. They aren't.

And of course, while the Cingy build out is going on, VZW will be building out their own 3G network. They have quite a large lead, and I don't see the gap closing until after VZW has 3G co...
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RUFF1415

Oct 14, 2005, 10:11 PM
BetterThanJake said:
I dunno, RUFF... so far the tally is EVDO in 84 markets, UMTS in 6... with UMTS expanding to 15-18 (depending how you count) by November.

Do you honestly think that UMTS will be in 40+ cities a mere month after that? Every news report I've read on that matter has said UMTS in "15-20 cities by the end of the year." The current announcement is simply a fulfillment of that promise. If Cingy was anything like on track to be in 40+ cities in December, or on a 'more national scale' by Jan 1, they would be trumpeting that news to high heaven. They aren't.

And of course, while the Cingy build out is going on, VZW will be building out their own 3G network. They have quite a large lead, and I don't see
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 10:22 PM
Trumpeting what you can do isn't stupid at all Ruff, not when mindshare is at stake. Look at something like the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3. Microsoft has a big product available earlier than Sony will be able to offer. So on the Xbox 360 launch day, what do you think Sony will do? That's right: Hold a big press conference saying exactly when the Playstation 3 will be available, and how much more wonderful it is than the Xbox 360. Why? So that more customers will take a pass on the 360 , and wait to buy the PS3. They did the same thing against Sega and its Dreamcast, to very good effect... nearly everyone waited for the Playstation 2, and Dreamcast eventually withered and died.

The analogy isn't perfect, of course, but I think Cingy would...
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thegreatrep

Oct 15, 2005, 1:57 AM
And if something catastrophic happened and they were unable to meet the goals they had "promised" then they would have many an unhappy customer. It's better to under promise, and then go "Oh, by the way it's actually ..."

If you under promise someone, then give them more then thought they were going to get, they will never complain, but if you trumpet to the high heavens, and something happens and you can't deliver then all you've done is upset people.

Using your Xbox 360 analogy (which btw Microsoft just came out and said they are having supply issues, and won't be able to make as many as they had promised... http://www.i4u.com/article4387.html) would you rather Microsoft come out and say "The 360 will have a HD-DVD / Blu-Ray (I kno...
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 2:54 AM
I just don't buy it, sorry.

I think if they had the goods, they'd be the first to tell us.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 10:34 AM
BetterThanJake said:
I just don't buy it, sorry.

I think if they had the goods, they'd be the first to tell us.


Well, apparently they weren't the first to tell us. We're not reading the Cingular hosted forums, now, are we?
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Me2

Oct 15, 2005, 12:26 PM
Err thats kind of a weird comparison.... Game console to cellular network? I don't think that works.....
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thegreatrep

Oct 16, 2005, 8:52 PM
Me2 said:
Err thats kind of a weird comparison.... Game console to cellular network? I don't think that works.....


It wasn't about comparing game consoles vs a cellular network. It was about comparing promises made vs promises kept. Hope that helps to clear it up for you.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 1:07 PM
tropicalhaven said:
BetterThanJake said:
I just don't buy it, sorry.

I think if they had the goods, they'd be the first to tell us.


Well, apparently they weren't the first to tell us. We're not reading the Cingular hosted forums, now, are we?

LOL... its not like the media has a mass of dedicated spies inside of Cingy, tropical. Cingy makes announcements, and the media reports those announcements. So yeah, through middlemen, Cingy does tell us first.

Case in point: Cingy announced MONTHS ago that they were going to have 3G in 15-20 cities by the end of the year.

So yeah, they told us.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 9:19 AM
XBox = Buy once, you're stuck with the product.

Cell Phone = 2 Year contract where all you can do is yell and scream at your company until they give you what you want.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 1:11 PM
None of which matters.

The key thing in the analogy is that Company A has a great product available now, and Company B has a great product that won't be available for awhile. So how does Company B compete?

Seems like an impossible-to-win situation, but Sony (Company B) actually did beat something with nothing with their strategy in the past. Cingy would be wise to emulate that strategy... if they can.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 10:32 AM
I think Cingular is keeping quiet on the issue. Otherwise, wouldn't *they* already be trumpeting over the large initial market?

VZW, having the "easy upgrade" CDMA where everything is just a software update, is taking its sweet time rolling out EV-DO. Remember in 2002 when North Dakota had EV-DO coverage? I do, but it wasn't from VZW. Here we are almost 4 years later, and VZW's EV-DO coverage is still sparse.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 1:35 PM
tropicalhaven said:
I think Cingular is keeping quiet on the issue. Otherwise, wouldn't *they* already be trumpeting over the large initial market?

Cingy has already trumpeted the fact that they were going to have 3G in 15-20 cities by the end of '05. They said that MONTHS ago.

Here we are almost 4 years later, and VZW's EV-DO coverage is still sparse.

Wow... 140 million people covered is 'sparse'? Guess the definition of that word has changed some since I was in middle school.

When a competitor has more 3G coverage than VZW in the US, then you call it sparse. 'till then, Cingy's 15-20 cities is obviously what's 'sparse'.

And if you want to talk speed of build-out, ...
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 6:00 PM
Now, do VZW's 140 million people have regular access at work, at home, both, or only in locations they may just be passing through. I'm not saying VZW is doing a terrible job, but wasn't CDMA supposed to be the easy/cheap/fast upgrade technology?

Now in terms of VZW's total native coverage, I do still consider EV-DO sparse. If a nasty winter storm affected 15 million in people in Chicagoland area, does that it mean it's geographically widesspread? Not in *this* country.

Aren't Cingular's markets going to be more widespread than VZW's markets? I mean, won't Cingular have coverage outside city limits? VZW's coverage was pretty sparse with Tampa, yet it bragged "broad" coverage in the GTA with EV-DO in 2004.

Cingular wasn't spec...
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 7:57 PM
I'm sure the 140 million fig is derived the same way any other coverage map is... from where ppl reside.

And if you consider 140 million folks covered sparse, then what's 15-20 cities? Super-mega-ultra-hyper sparse? 😳
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 9:32 PM
Some companies define the coverage in terms of people by "how many people work and live" in an area.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 1:57 AM
Shouldn't change things that much.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 3:02 PM
tropicalhaven said:
Here we are almost 4 years later, and VZW's EV-DO coverage is still sparse.


If they instead blanketed the USA by now, would that have made them more money?

It's a much different time than the 90's. Expansion of technology takes a back seat to profitability nowadays.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 6:02 PM
My point that I was getting at, from the proponents of CDMA, is that CDMA is the technology that's fast, easy, and cheap to upgrade. If it's fast, easy, and cheap, some companies like VZW must be missing out, or it really is neither fast, easy, nor cheap.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 9:16 AM
You totally side-skirted my point. High data speeds are useless without respectable latency. If you surf the web, play online video games, or watch streaming videos, 200k with good latency is a way better experience than 500k with Verizon's latency.
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jimkrell

Oct 14, 2005, 9:51 PM
Sprint is really no further ahead than Cingular, or at least won't be for long. Add to this the backwards compatibility of UMTS/HSDPA with EDGE (EV-DO merely defaults back to CDMA 1x, which is much slower than EDGE), and you have cities covered with decent speeds with far more data coverage than either Sprint or VZ at higher speeds in less-populated areas.
Cingy will give VZ and Sprint a serious run for their money. A year from now, even 6 months, will anyone care who was first out of the gates with this?!? No, and it won't matter to the general public.
Also, the ultimate speeds of HSDPA are far in excess of the bursts VZ gets on EV-DO, so look for Cingular to push the speeds up as deployments progress. This is just the first step of...
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 10:01 PM
A year from now, even 6 months, will anyone care who was first out of the gates with this?!?

VZW getting props for being first isn't the problem for Cingy. The problem is, VZW will get 3G into nearly all major US cities well before Cingy has any kind of 3G solution there. And VZW will then grab a significant amount of said 3G customer base before Cingy can do a darn thing. From that point on, its a matter of retaining said customers, and VZW is very very good at that.
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thegreatrep

Oct 15, 2005, 2:02 AM
BetterThanJake said:
From that point on, its a matter of retaining said customers, and VZW is very very good at that.


Not really.. least not in my location. For everyone current Cingular customer that gets mad and tells me they are going to port to Vzw, I get a Vzw customer coming into my store telling me how "feed up" they are with Vzw.. It's all cyclical. 🙂
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 2:57 AM
Well, your location is your location... but nationally, Verizon's churn rate is about half of Cingular's... 1.2% vs 2.2%.

Or in other words, Verizon has about half as many customers bail on them as Cingy does. Sorry, but your location's experiences do not seem to be typical.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 10:42 AM
I think 2.2% is pretty good, considering they just bought thier second largest competitor. Now they have to deal with people who use thier phones 30 minutes/month and are complaining that Cingular offers only 800 instead of ATTWS's 850 minutes per month at the same price....
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thegreatrep

Oct 15, 2005, 12:10 PM
BetterThanJake said:
Well, your location is your location... but nationally, Verizon's churn rate is about half of Cingular's... 1.2% vs 2.2%.

Or in other words, Verizon has about half as many customers bail on them as Cingy does. Sorry, but your location's experiences do not seem to be typical.


Agreed it probably is just my location, but that's all I can speak for personally.

tropicalhaven said:
I think 2.2% is pretty good, considering they just bought their second largest competitor. Now they have to deal with people who use their phones 30 minutes/month and are complaining that Cingular offers only 800 instead of ATTWS's 850 minutes per month at the same price....
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 1:15 PM
tropicalhaven said:
I think 2.2% is pretty good, considering they just bought thier second largest competitor. Now they have to deal with people who use thier phones 30 minutes/month and are complaining that Cingular offers only 800 instead of ATTWS's 850 minutes per month at the same price....

Yes, ATTW did definitely give away the store. But I can't feel too sorry for Cingy on that one... they knew what they were getting into when the bought ATTW. They knew they were buying a company that was sick in a lot of ways.

And you're right 2.2% isn't awful. Its just that 1.2% is a lot better. Let's face it, Verizon does execute very well. But if Cingy can continue to improve, they can compete, I do not questi...
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 3:04 PM
I think what he's trying to say is that we're comparing a well-established company to one that is still adjusting from its merger with another very large company.

Even at their inceptions, Verizon had a much easier time with an all CDMA network.

Cingular was TDMA in some markets and GSM in others for a long time before they FINALLY switched to all GSM.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 4:06 PM
Well, goes to show that VZW knew what they were doing when they chose CDMA. 🙂

Also, can we really blame Cingy's higher churn entirely on the merger? They do have CS and network reliability issues, surveys consistently rank them mid- or back of the pack in these things. Even aside from the merger, Cingy does have work to do.

I think we can all agree that as the merger starts to recede in the rearview mirror, Cingy is going to have to take a 'no excuses' attitude, or they're going to be in for quite a bad time of it.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 4:51 PM
CS and network reliability issues have been blamed on the merger. Cingular will be able to do that for about another year I think. 😁
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 6:12 PM
Yeah, but for every one person who complains about something with Cingy/AWS and blames it on the acquisition, I hear two to three people praise for better coverage, better call quality, and fewer dropped calls.

Now, I just have to wonder...Cingy has more complaints about "network busy". Is that because Verizon Wireless play a busy signal when the network is busy, but Cingular phones actually display the message "Network Busy"? If Cingular would play a busy signal, would their network busy complaints go down?
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 7:44 PM
tropicalhaven said:
Yeah, but for every one person who complains about something with Cingy/AWS and blames it on the acquisition, I hear two to three people praise for better coverage, better call quality, and fewer dropped calls.

If that were consistently true nationwide, don't you think Cingy would be doing a lot better in terms of customer adds and churn than they're doing right now?

I mean... Verizon is nearly doubling Cingy's customer adds nowadays, and with half the churn. What's the deal?

Now, I just have to wonder...Cingy has more complaints about "network busy". Is that because Verizon Wireless play a busy signal when the network is busy, but Cingular phones actually display th
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 9:35 PM
No matter what, customers are going to encounter network busy situations unless you live in a sparsely populated area, such as North Dakota or Siberia. Mobile networks are not meant to support every single user at any instant of time, just like roads are not meant to support every vehicle in traffic at any given instant.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 2:01 AM
You're gonna hate me, but I honestly have a hard time remembering getting a busy signal from VZW. They are VERY good, especially out West (I live in Northern California).

In response to your post, I've thought long and hard about it, and I think maybe it happened ONCE in the past year... when I made a call right at 9PM (which is when free nights start, and everyone's jumping on the network at the same time). Re-dialed, and got on immediately.

Other than that... honestly, no busy signals. Its pretty nice. 🙂
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 2:05 AM
PS- Think my experiences with this might have anything to do with the fact that CDMA towers have very high call capacity? Hmm.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 16, 2005, 12:15 PM
It could also depend on how many towers are in your area, and how many people normally use those towers. In North Dakota, you'll never get a network busy signal, but in Chicago, I know of people who complain about not always being able to make a phone call. It depends on area.

To your capacity side of the debate, UMTS is more efficient than CDMA2000, so is Verizon Wireless ready to become the back company?
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 8:03 PM
Sure TH, but all things being equal, the ability of CDMA to handle a bigger call load than either TDMA or GSM is definitely a benefit.

Far as UMTS goes, might be a little early to talk about its efficiency, considering that you're just now getting it into 15-20 cities. And of course, EVDO is pretty efficient (3G technologies in general are), plus EVDO Rev A supports VoIP. Once the new networks are paid off, its going to be very cheap for the carriers to provide voice over 3G.

You already see some of that in Europe, with Hutchinson 3G undercutting what the GSM carriers were charging for voice.
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sangyup81

Oct 17, 2005, 6:44 PM
I wouldn't put any faith in VoIP EV-DO. Verizon will end having to pick up EV-DV if VoIP doesn't work out.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 7:45 PM
sangyup81 said:
CS and network reliability issues have been blamed on the merger. Cingular will be able to do that for about another year I think. 😁

LOL. Can't blame 'em for doin' that... its actually pretty clever. 🙂
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 9:45 PM
All customers have their principle compaints. Verizon's is billing errors. Verizon changed its America's Choice plan to have no roaming charges. Cingular upgraded any users on a local or regional plan to a national plan at no extra charge. I heard that Sprint has its Fair and Flexible plan with no roaming charges.

I wonder how the carriers will look in 5 years?
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 1:53 AM
Actually, I hear ATTW back in the day, and now Cingy, are the king of billing errors. Wonder if that had anything to do with them being kicked out of the Better Business Bureau in upstate New York for unresolved complaints?

I have some experience with this with SBC, Cingy's parent company. When I used to have a landline with them, I asked them to install a second line for my roommate. They did, but they double-billed both my line and my roommate's line for the work. We paid for the legit charges, refused to pay for the duped charges. Got the runaround from SBC CS for several months, they eventually SWORE the matter had been fixed, but guess what? Its a couple of years later and I *still* get calls from their collection agency, and the ma...
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tropicalhaven

Oct 16, 2005, 12:23 PM
For the most part, AWS is now a moot point since they're no longer in business. Cingular did adopt those errors, though. I think Verizon Wireless is getting better at thier billing errors, a big complaint I hear is getting billed for minutes used in the last month, sometimes giving you overage charges when you did watch your minutes. Another biggy, but may be moot now, was VZW's "overseas" roaming in Canada. When I lived up by the border, you could dial a call with home signal, it would switch to roaming when it determined the home signal was unusable, and you wouldn't see the roaming indicator *during* the call.

I knew someone win out in court because they fought VZW and VZW claimed you needed a GSM handset for overseas roaming, ye...
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 7:51 PM
I don't doubt that Verizon has its issues as well. But when I hear about billing errors, it more often than not seems to be someone complaining about Cingy these days.

Also must be pointed out that Verizon consistently either wins or comes in second in the customer service surveys (JD Power, etc). Cingy usually finishes mid-pack or lower. Perhaps some of that is legacy ATTW crap that they have to deal with, but still, it has been a year since the merger.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 16, 2005, 11:37 PM
There are a lot of facets of overall satisfaction. Coverage, customer service, billing, call quality, phone selection. Verizon Wireless fell victim to a class-action suit for thier advertising with the V710s. Sprint/Nextel fell suit to piggybacking on the electrical companies' free land use for thier equipment on electrical towers. T-Mobile, the foreign owned one, seems to be actually handling itself better than the American ones. I don't recall T-Mobile being involved in any major legal battles lately.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 11:52 PM
You're right, but even going by that... Verizon wins the call quality surveys too, and their coverage is quite huge.

I'll give you that their phone selection hasn't been the sexiest, but even that's getting better.... Samsung 970 and 950 recently released, LG 9800 released, along with all the the VCAST phones, and with the RAZR and Nokia 6256i & 6236i coming soon.

I do agree with you that what VZW has done with bluetooth hasn't been right, but allegedly even that's changing too (the 6256i).
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Al_Swearengen

Oct 16, 2005, 2:53 PM
🤣

I used to wonder why you hated Cingular/SBC so much. Now I know it's because you owe them money! 🤣
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 5:39 PM
But that's just the thing, Al... I don't owe 'em. They just can't figure that out. 😉

Also, I don't hate Cingy because SBC screwed up. I got even with SBC a long time ago, the old-fashioned way... I got rid of 'em.
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Al_Swearengen

Oct 16, 2005, 9:38 PM
BetterThanJake said:
But that's just the thing, Al... I don't owe 'em. They just can't figure that out. 😉

Also, I don't hate Cingy because SBC screwed up. I got even with SBC a long time ago, the old-fashioned way... I got rid of 'em.


Sure jake. But either way, you haven't rid yourself of them. They still pummeled your credit. 🤣 Good luck with that new car loan. 😉
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 11:14 PM
Oh, I dunno Al... I'm over 700 on the credit score. Shouldn't be a prob. But hey, thanks for worrying about me. 🙂
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tropicalhaven

Oct 16, 2005, 11:39 PM
700 is only mediocre, FYI. You may not have a problem getting credit, but you'll pay a higher premium for it than the more credit-savvy ones will.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 16, 2005, 11:57 PM
Really? 700 seems to be pretty good, actually:

"In general, you are likely to be considered a better credit risk if your FICO score is high. Under mortgage lending guidelines, for example, a score of 650 or above indicates a very good credit history."

http://loan.yahoo.com/c/basics7.html »

In any case, I don't have to buy a new car for a couple of years yet, so I have plenty of time to bring it up if need be. 🙂
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tropicalhaven

Oct 17, 2005, 3:53 PM
It really depends on what you are applying for. a $500 credit card won't require a score of 800, but a $300,000k mortgage might be difficult to obtain with a 650.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 6:08 PM
I don't think Cingy bought AWS for the customers. I don't think Cingy bought AWS for the coverage area. I think Cingy bought AWS for the spectrum, with the added benefit of having compatible infrastructure in place, its most preferred roaming area now its own coverage, and customers and employess coming in with the deal.

I think they're all in a buying up frenzy, except T-Mobile. Cingy bought AWS. Sprint bought Nextel. Alltel bought Western Wireless. VZW is buying up a LOT of small local carriers. T-Mobile seems to be the only one not buying up carriers. I have heard a rumour of T-Mo buying Triton PCS (SunCom), but I think this is only a rumour and will not happen.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 9:21 AM
Cingular will go for the suburbs! 😎
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SkillciaX

Oct 15, 2005, 9:42 AM
Sprint/Verizon technology update: EV-DO (Evolution Data Only) The third upgrade to CDMA, 3G EV-DO delivers average speeds of 300 to 500 Kbps, although it promises speeds up to 2.4 Mbps. Offered by Verizon; Sprint will roll out EV-DO later this year.

Cingular/T-Mobile technology update:
UMTS (Universal Mobile Telecommunications System) The third upgrade to GSM. 3G UMTS offers average speeds of 220 to 320 Kbps. It also allows for videophone calls.

So looking at these two Sprint/Verizon is obviously faster. However when both of their 4th upgrades come into place

Sprint/Verizon technology updates: EV-DV (Evolution Data and Voice) The most advanced CDMA upgrade. EV-DV merges voice and data traffic as UMTS does, but improves download sp...
(continues)
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 9:55 AM
The article doesn't talk about latency. EV-DO is faster than UMTS yet not capable of Video Calls. Why? Latency.

And don't even think of playing a 1st Person Shooter on EV-DO (at least on the current Rev. 0). You'll ping over 300ms.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 1:23 PM
sangyup81 said:
The article doesn't talk about latency. EV-DO is faster than UMTS yet not capable of Video Calls. Why? Latency.

And don't even think of playing a 1st Person Shooter on EV-DO (at least on the current Rev. 0). You'll ping over 300ms.

What you fail to mention is that EVDO Rev A greatly reduces latency.

Hey, if you guys get to mention that HSPDA will improve in speed, I think its only fair to mention that EVDO will get lower latency, right? 😉
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 3:06 PM
Actually I was comparing UMTS to EV-DO Rev. 0.

HSDPA UMTS would need a mention of EV-DO Rev. A for fair comparison.

I think I am still upset that Verizon went EV-DO instead of EV-DV. There are reports that Verizon will end up having to go EV-DV in the future anyways. That's what Samsung is betting on it seems at least.
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RUFF1415

Oct 15, 2005, 6:19 PM
Qualcomm dropped EVDV. You won't be seeing any carrier deploying it. EVDO Rev. A is what replaced EVDV in Qualcomm's "lineup".
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RUFF1415

Oct 15, 2005, 10:11 AM
EVDV is dead. Qualcomm dropped all plans for EVDV last year, and has pursued EVDO Rev. A instead.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 10:47 AM
Just because UMTS is the general upgrade step, that doens't mean Cingular has to stall there. It could simply go the extra mile and deliver HSDPA since it's already available.

Would all CDMA carriers have to install 1x then wait for 12 months before installing EV-DO?
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Me2

Oct 15, 2005, 12:39 PM
Hey they are launching a few months earlier than expected.... They weren't going to start until january one 06!
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 3:07 PM
I limited launch I'd say. I'd rather they have jumped right into HSDPA.
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