Cingular 3G To Launch November 1
WOW!! Blazing Speed!
Humdizzle said:
🙄 ..."Cingular expects throughput speeds of 220-320 Kbps on the network." What's the point?!? Both Verizon and Sprint have launched EV-DO networks that average 400-700kbps., peaking @ 2Mbps! It's like rolling out a VGA camera phone when everyone else is using 1.3megapixel and 2megapixel. Is there something I'm missing here??? If not, this is just pathetic!
In the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami area, I've averaged 750kbps topping out at 1mbps on Verizon's network...speeds have only dropped to 500kbps on a few locations. It'll take a Cingular the better part of a year to cover the area Verizon does now. Speeds should increase steadily during that time.
Not having to pay to easily get those nice pictures off your phone counts for a lot for some people. 😉
But as already mentioned, there's also HSDPA's eventual higher throughput and lower latency.
Roadkill said:
Well, there's always the fact that the Bluetooth on your phone won't be gimped like it is on Verizon and Sprint...
Even that may be changing... the Nokia 6256i is coming out very soon for VZW, and allegedly with uncrippled Bluetooth.
BetterThanJake said:
Even that may be changing... the Nokia 6256i is coming out very soon for VZW, and allegedly with uncrippled Bluetooth.
I'll believe it when I see it.
tropicalhaven said:BetterThanJake said:
Even that may be changing... the Nokia 6256i is coming out very soon for VZW, and allegedly with uncrippled Bluetooth.
I'll believe it when I see it.
LOL! Me too, actually. 😁
But I think there's hope.
One of the big delaying factors may be the Verizon UI that VZW wants to put on all of the phones it offers, eventually. Nokia has historically been a big believer in differentiating its own products from other phone makers, at the expense of carriers being able to differentiate themselves from other carriers via changing some aspects of the phones. That has caused something of a tug-of-war between Nokia and carriers.
However, not too long ago Nokia took a pretty big hit in marketshare, and has started to sing a different tune. More phones tailored to what the carriers (not Nokia) want, and more of an emphasis on the CDMA market.
My guess is that Ver...
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Didn't Moto's V710 have file transfer? Then VZW branded ones didn't?
Don't you think by the time Cingular rolls out their "complete, up to speed HSDPA", CDMA will then be rolling out newer versions of EV-DO w/ larger packets?
Overall, the two technologies will be leapfrogging each other, with one important distinction, at least for the next couple of years: EVDO will be available in a LOT more places than UMTS/HSPDA, since Verizon is a year or more ahead in its 3G network deployment. Now THAT'S some serious 'latency'.
I'm pretty sure we're going to be seeing those 18 cities expanding to 40+ in December and on a more national scale by January 1. Don't underestimate what Cingular can do.
And don't forget, Cingular has a larger native network than Verizon to provide 3G services in.
Do you honestly think that UMTS will be in 40+ cities a mere month after that? Every news report I've read on that matter has said UMTS in "15-20 cities by the end of the year." The current announcement is simply a fulfillment of that promise. If Cingy was anything like on track to be in 40+ cities in December, or on a 'more national scale' by Jan 1, they would be trumpeting that news to high heaven. They aren't.
And of course, while the Cingy build out is going on, VZW will be building out their own 3G network. They have quite a large lead, and I don't see the gap closing until after VZW has 3G co...
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BetterThanJake said:...
I dunno, RUFF... so far the tally is EVDO in 84 markets, UMTS in 6... with UMTS expanding to 15-18 (depending how you count) by November.
Do you honestly think that UMTS will be in 40+ cities a mere month after that? Every news report I've read on that matter has said UMTS in "15-20 cities by the end of the year." The current announcement is simply a fulfillment of that promise. If Cingy was anything like on track to be in 40+ cities in December, or on a 'more national scale' by Jan 1, they would be trumpeting that news to high heaven. They aren't.
And of course, while the Cingy build out is going on, VZW will be building out their own 3G network. They have quite a large lead, and I don't see
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The analogy isn't perfect, of course, but I think Cingy would...
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If you under promise someone, then give them more then thought they were going to get, they will never complain, but if you trumpet to the high heavens, and something happens and you can't deliver then all you've done is upset people.
Using your Xbox 360 analogy (which btw Microsoft just came out and said they are having supply issues, and won't be able to make as many as they had promised... http://www.i4u.com/article4387.html) would you rather Microsoft come out and say "The 360 will have a HD-DVD / Blu-Ray (I kno...
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I think if they had the goods, they'd be the first to tell us.
BetterThanJake said:
I just don't buy it, sorry.
I think if they had the goods, they'd be the first to tell us.
Well, apparently they weren't the first to tell us. We're not reading the Cingular hosted forums, now, are we?
Me2 said:
Err thats kind of a weird comparison.... Game console to cellular network? I don't think that works.....
It wasn't about comparing game consoles vs a cellular network. It was about comparing promises made vs promises kept. Hope that helps to clear it up for you.
tropicalhaven said:BetterThanJake said:
I just don't buy it, sorry.
I think if they had the goods, they'd be the first to tell us.
Well, apparently they weren't the first to tell us. We're not reading the Cingular hosted forums, now, are we?
LOL... its not like the media has a mass of dedicated spies inside of Cingy, tropical. Cingy makes announcements, and the media reports those announcements. So yeah, through middlemen, Cingy does tell us first.
Case in point: Cingy announced MONTHS ago that they were going to have 3G in 15-20 cities by the end of the year.
So yeah, they told us.
Cell Phone = 2 Year contract where all you can do is yell and scream at your company until they give you what you want.
The key thing in the analogy is that Company A has a great product available now, and Company B has a great product that won't be available for awhile. So how does Company B compete?
Seems like an impossible-to-win situation, but Sony (Company B) actually did beat something with nothing with their strategy in the past. Cingy would be wise to emulate that strategy... if they can.
VZW, having the "easy upgrade" CDMA where everything is just a software update, is taking its sweet time rolling out EV-DO. Remember in 2002 when North Dakota had EV-DO coverage? I do, but it wasn't from VZW. Here we are almost 4 years later, and VZW's EV-DO coverage is still sparse.
tropicalhaven said:
I think Cingular is keeping quiet on the issue. Otherwise, wouldn't *they* already be trumpeting over the large initial market?
Cingy has already trumpeted the fact that they were going to have 3G in 15-20 cities by the end of '05. They said that MONTHS ago.
Here we are almost 4 years later, and VZW's EV-DO coverage is still sparse.
Wow... 140 million people covered is 'sparse'? Guess the definition of that word has changed some since I was in middle school.
When a competitor has more 3G coverage than VZW in the US, then you call it sparse. 'till then, Cingy's 15-20 cities is obviously what's 'sparse'.
And if you want to talk speed of build-out, ...
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Now in terms of VZW's total native coverage, I do still consider EV-DO sparse. If a nasty winter storm affected 15 million in people in Chicagoland area, does that it mean it's geographically widesspread? Not in *this* country.
Aren't Cingular's markets going to be more widespread than VZW's markets? I mean, won't Cingular have coverage outside city limits? VZW's coverage was pretty sparse with Tampa, yet it bragged "broad" coverage in the GTA with EV-DO in 2004.
Cingular wasn't spec...
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And if you consider 140 million folks covered sparse, then what's 15-20 cities? Super-mega-ultra-hyper sparse? 😳
tropicalhaven said:
Here we are almost 4 years later, and VZW's EV-DO coverage is still sparse.
If they instead blanketed the USA by now, would that have made them more money?
It's a much different time than the 90's. Expansion of technology takes a back seat to profitability nowadays.
Cingy will give VZ and Sprint a serious run for their money. A year from now, even 6 months, will anyone care who was first out of the gates with this?!? No, and it won't matter to the general public.
Also, the ultimate speeds of HSDPA are far in excess of the bursts VZ gets on EV-DO, so look for Cingular to push the speeds up as deployments progress. This is just the first step of...
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A year from now, even 6 months, will anyone care who was first out of the gates with this?!?
VZW getting props for being first isn't the problem for Cingy. The problem is, VZW will get 3G into nearly all major US cities well before Cingy has any kind of 3G solution there. And VZW will then grab a significant amount of said 3G customer base before Cingy can do a darn thing. From that point on, its a matter of retaining said customers, and VZW is very very good at that.
BetterThanJake said:
From that point on, its a matter of retaining said customers, and VZW is very very good at that.
Not really.. least not in my location. For everyone current Cingular customer that gets mad and tells me they are going to port to Vzw, I get a Vzw customer coming into my store telling me how "feed up" they are with Vzw.. It's all cyclical. 🙂
Or in other words, Verizon has about half as many customers bail on them as Cingy does. Sorry, but your location's experiences do not seem to be typical.
BetterThanJake said:
Well, your location is your location... but nationally, Verizon's churn rate is about half of Cingular's... 1.2% vs 2.2%.
Or in other words, Verizon has about half as many customers bail on them as Cingy does. Sorry, but your location's experiences do not seem to be typical.
Agreed it probably is just my location, but that's all I can speak for personally.
tropicalhaven said:...
I think 2.2% is pretty good, considering they just bought their second largest competitor. Now they have to deal with people who use their phones 30 minutes/month and are complaining that Cingular offers only 800 instead of ATTWS's 850 minutes per month at the same price....
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tropicalhaven said:
I think 2.2% is pretty good, considering they just bought thier second largest competitor. Now they have to deal with people who use thier phones 30 minutes/month and are complaining that Cingular offers only 800 instead of ATTWS's 850 minutes per month at the same price....
Yes, ATTW did definitely give away the store. But I can't feel too sorry for Cingy on that one... they knew what they were getting into when the bought ATTW. They knew they were buying a company that was sick in a lot of ways.
And you're right 2.2% isn't awful. Its just that 1.2% is a lot better. Let's face it, Verizon does execute very well. But if Cingy can continue to improve, they can compete, I do not questi...
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Even at their inceptions, Verizon had a much easier time with an all CDMA network.
Cingular was TDMA in some markets and GSM in others for a long time before they FINALLY switched to all GSM.
Also, can we really blame Cingy's higher churn entirely on the merger? They do have CS and network reliability issues, surveys consistently rank them mid- or back of the pack in these things. Even aside from the merger, Cingy does have work to do.
I think we can all agree that as the merger starts to recede in the rearview mirror, Cingy is going to have to take a 'no excuses' attitude, or they're going to be in for quite a bad time of it.
Now, I just have to wonder...Cingy has more complaints about "network busy". Is that because Verizon Wireless play a busy signal when the network is busy, but Cingular phones actually display the message "Network Busy"? If Cingular would play a busy signal, would their network busy complaints go down?
tropicalhaven said:
Yeah, but for every one person who complains about something with Cingy/AWS and blames it on the acquisition, I hear two to three people praise for better coverage, better call quality, and fewer dropped calls.
If that were consistently true nationwide, don't you think Cingy would be doing a lot better in terms of customer adds and churn than they're doing right now?
I mean... Verizon is nearly doubling Cingy's customer adds nowadays, and with half the churn. What's the deal?
Now, I just have to wonder...Cingy has more complaints about "network busy". Is that because Verizon Wireless play a busy signal when the network is busy, but Cingular phones actually display th...
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In response to your post, I've thought long and hard about it, and I think maybe it happened ONCE in the past year... when I made a call right at 9PM (which is when free nights start, and everyone's jumping on the network at the same time). Re-dialed, and got on immediately.
Other than that... honestly, no busy signals. Its pretty nice. 🙂
To your capacity side of the debate, UMTS is more efficient than CDMA2000, so is Verizon Wireless ready to become the back company?
Far as UMTS goes, might be a little early to talk about its efficiency, considering that you're just now getting it into 15-20 cities. And of course, EVDO is pretty efficient (3G technologies in general are), plus EVDO Rev A supports VoIP. Once the new networks are paid off, its going to be very cheap for the carriers to provide voice over 3G.
You already see some of that in Europe, with Hutchinson 3G undercutting what the GSM carriers were charging for voice.
sangyup81 said:
CS and network reliability issues have been blamed on the merger. Cingular will be able to do that for about another year I think. 😁
LOL. Can't blame 'em for doin' that... its actually pretty clever. 🙂
I wonder how the carriers will look in 5 years?
I have some experience with this with SBC, Cingy's parent company. When I used to have a landline with them, I asked them to install a second line for my roommate. They did, but they double-billed both my line and my roommate's line for the work. We paid for the legit charges, refused to pay for the duped charges. Got the runaround from SBC CS for several months, they eventually SWORE the matter had been fixed, but guess what? Its a couple of years later and I *still* get calls from their collection agency, and the ma...
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I knew someone win out in court because they fought VZW and VZW claimed you needed a GSM handset for overseas roaming, ye...
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Also must be pointed out that Verizon consistently either wins or comes in second in the customer service surveys (JD Power, etc). Cingy usually finishes mid-pack or lower. Perhaps some of that is legacy ATTW crap that they have to deal with, but still, it has been a year since the merger.
I'll give you that their phone selection hasn't been the sexiest, but even that's getting better.... Samsung 970 and 950 recently released, LG 9800 released, along with all the the VCAST phones, and with the RAZR and Nokia 6256i & 6236i coming soon.
I do agree with you that what VZW has done with bluetooth hasn't been right, but allegedly even that's changing too (the 6256i).
I used to wonder why you hated Cingular/SBC so much. Now I know it's because you owe them money! 🤣
Also, I don't hate Cingy because SBC screwed up. I got even with SBC a long time ago, the old-fashioned way... I got rid of 'em.
BetterThanJake said:
But that's just the thing, Al... I don't owe 'em. They just can't figure that out. 😉
Also, I don't hate Cingy because SBC screwed up. I got even with SBC a long time ago, the old-fashioned way... I got rid of 'em.
Sure jake. But either way, you haven't rid yourself of them. They still pummeled your credit. 🤣 Good luck with that new car loan. 😉
"In general, you are likely to be considered a better credit risk if your FICO score is high. Under mortgage lending guidelines, for example, a score of 650 or above indicates a very good credit history."
http://loan.yahoo.com/c/basics7.html »
In any case, I don't have to buy a new car for a couple of years yet, so I have plenty of time to bring it up if need be. 🙂
I think they're all in a buying up frenzy, except T-Mobile. Cingy bought AWS. Sprint bought Nextel. Alltel bought Western Wireless. VZW is buying up a LOT of small local carriers. T-Mobile seems to be the only one not buying up carriers. I have heard a rumour of T-Mo buying Triton PCS (SunCom), but I think this is only a rumour and will not happen.
Cingular/T-Mobile technology update:
UMTS (Universal Mobile Telecommunications System) The third upgrade to GSM. 3G UMTS offers average speeds of 220 to 320 Kbps. It also allows for videophone calls.
So looking at these two Sprint/Verizon is obviously faster. However when both of their 4th upgrades come into place
Sprint/Verizon technology updates: EV-DV (Evolution Data and Voice) The most advanced CDMA upgrade. EV-DV merges voice and data traffic as UMTS does, but improves download sp...
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And don't even think of playing a 1st Person Shooter on EV-DO (at least on the current Rev. 0). You'll ping over 300ms.
sangyup81 said:
The article doesn't talk about latency. EV-DO is faster than UMTS yet not capable of Video Calls. Why? Latency.
And don't even think of playing a 1st Person Shooter on EV-DO (at least on the current Rev. 0). You'll ping over 300ms.
What you fail to mention is that EVDO Rev A greatly reduces latency.
Hey, if you guys get to mention that HSPDA will improve in speed, I think its only fair to mention that EVDO will get lower latency, right? 😉
HSDPA UMTS would need a mention of EV-DO Rev. A for fair comparison.
I think I am still upset that Verizon went EV-DO instead of EV-DV. There are reports that Verizon will end up having to go EV-DV in the future anyways. That's what Samsung is betting on it seems at least.
Would all CDMA carriers have to install 1x then wait for 12 months before installing EV-DO?
This forum is closed.