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Cingular 3G To Launch November 1

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220-320 Kbps?????

SForsyth01

Oct 14, 2005, 12:25 PM
I thought UMTS/HSDPA was supposed to blow EVDO away with its data speeds. Why are they only anticipating speeds that EDGE is capable of (or at least it seems that my EDGE phone can get 220-320 kbps)?????

EVDO gets real world speeds of 300 to 600 kbps. How is this supposed to be better?

Now I'm all disappointed, not only is my market not getting it, but it isn't going to be as fast as I thought. 😢
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en102

Oct 14, 2005, 12:54 PM
220-320 kbps is UMTS w/o HSDPA.
HSDPA is technically rated to 14 Mbps.
Most likely it will be detuned at the start though 😡
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SForsyth01

Oct 14, 2005, 1:02 PM
en102 said:
220-320 kbps is UMTS w/o HSDPA.
HSDPA is technically rated to 14 Mbps.
Most likely it will be detuned at the start though 😡


Seems almost pointless to me to roll out something that is already beaten by another company. But I don't know. 😕
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Iselltheshitoutofphones

Oct 14, 2005, 1:08 PM
I agree that this is all redundant. My SE GC-83 data card runs consistently in that range with bursts up to 450kbps. That is in my store.

At lease it is comming to Dallas. Well, it was here already via AT&T.

Will
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muchdrama

Oct 14, 2005, 1:10 PM
SForsyth01 said:
en102 said:
220-320 kbps is UMTS w/o HSDPA.
HSDPA is technically rated to 14 Mbps.
Most likely it will be detuned at the start though 😡


Seems almost pointless to me to roll out something that is already beaten by another company. But I don't know. 😕


That might be a case of "Let's get something out while the time is right". I expect speeds and coverage to increase steadily.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 11:14 AM
SForsyth01 said:
Seems almost pointless to me to roll out something that is already beaten by another company. But I don't know. 😕


Why roll out CDMA when TDMA already has it beaten? That was a scenario about 10 years ago. Now look at the life of TDMA.
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muchdrama

Oct 14, 2005, 1:08 PM
SForsyth01 said:
I thought UMTS/HSDPA was supposed to blow EVDO away with its data speeds. Why are they only anticipating speeds that EDGE is capable of (or at least it seems that my EDGE phone can get 220-320 kbps)?????

EVDO gets real world speeds of 300 to 600 kbps. How is this supposed to be better?

Now I'm all disappointed, not only is my market not getting it, but it isn't going to be as fast as I thought. 😢


Give the Big Orange some time to increase speeds and the size of the network.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 1:48 PM
muchdrama said:
SForsyth01 said:
I thought UMTS/HSDPA was supposed to blow EVDO away with its data speeds. Why are they only anticipating speeds that EDGE is capable of (or at least it seems that my EDGE phone can get 220-320 kbps)?????

EVDO gets real world speeds of 300 to 600 kbps. How is this supposed to be better?

Now I'm all disappointed, not only is my market not getting it, but it isn't going to be as fast as I thought. 😢


Give the Big Orange some time to increase speeds and the size of the network.

Sure muchD, but while they're doing that, Verizon certainly won't be sitting still. They'll be increasing the size (and eventually speed) of their network...
(continues)
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pauldg

Oct 14, 2005, 3:36 PM
hate to say it, but it seems that way. Hopefully they upgrade to HSDPA quickly. the web page estimates 2 years for widespread coverage
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sangyup81

Oct 14, 2005, 5:25 PM
HSDPA is supposed to help Cingular catch up. Verizon is several upgrades away from what HSDPA is capable of while Cingular will only need to refine their existing HSDPA.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 7:36 PM
Even Cingy brings their data speeds up, in terms of how much of the country you can use 3G in, Cingy is definitely far behind.

I'm sure Cingy will be building away in '06, but so will VZW, and they will continue to offer 3G in a lot more places than Cingy. That's just a fact.
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RUFF1415

Oct 14, 2005, 9:34 PM
Fact? I don't know...
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thegreatrep

Oct 15, 2005, 2:13 AM
Yeah.. I don't think you truly understand how all this works.. plus Cingular has a track record of completing things much faster then they say.. and if I remember correctly from a conference call a couple days back, it's going to launch much faster then this.. they just don't want to over promise.
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RUFF1415

Oct 15, 2005, 10:23 AM
I think you responded to the wrong person.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 3:03 AM
RUFF1415 said:
Fact? I don't know...

For the rest of 2005, and for 2006, yeah, it pretty much is.

After that, it'll be moot, because both companies will have most of the US covered, 3G-wise.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 9:13 AM
Facts? Let's talk facts.

Once Cingular puts in HSDPA, Verizon will have to change technologies quite a few times to get HSDPA's capabilities.

Cingular's upgrade isn't just a step forward. It's a leap.

Cingular uses the W-CDMA/UMTS path which is GPRS -> EDGE -> UMTS -> HSDPA.

Verizon uses the CDMA2000 path which is 1xRTT -> EV-Do Rev. 0 -> EV-Do Rev. A -> EV-DV Rev. D -> ????

And even at the EV-DV step, Cingular's HSDPA is capable of almost 5x the speed of Verizon.

Now before you talk to me about matters of fact, why don't you look further into CDMA 2000 vs. UMTS. Then talk to me.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 1:01 PM
Sorry sangy, but you completely sidestepped what I actually said. Which was:

I'm sure Cingy will be building away in '06, but so will VZW, and they will continue to offer 3G in a lot more places than Cingy. That's just a fact.


What part of the fact that VZW currently offers 3G in a lot more places, and will continue to for the near-term, was unclear? And what does that have to with tech roadmaps?

I'll make a deal with you... you actually read what I say, and I'll look further into 3G roadmaps. Deal?
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 1:19 PM
OK, here's my point:

Cingular already has the largest high speed network. Yes, there is more EDGE out there than EV-DO. The argument for Verizon was that EV-DO offers more bandwith. UMTS is out to trump EV-DO in the absolute speed catagory once HSDPA and HSUPA upgrades are done.

It's all in about what you compare. Do you compared EDGE coverage vs. EV-DO coverage or EV-DO covereage vs. UMTS coverage?

Some say EDGE peaks at 400kbps btw.
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trevor83

Oct 15, 2005, 1:55 PM
sangyup81 said:
It's all in about what you compare. Do you compared EDGE coverage vs. EV-DO coverage or EV-DO covereage vs. UMTS coverage?

Some say EDGE peaks at 400kbps btw.



So are we comparing average speeds or peak speeds? EVDO peaks much higher than 400kbps.....so, no you can't compare EDGE to EVDO.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 2:02 PM
Calling EDGE a 'high-speed network' might be a stretch, Sangy. Cingular, on their own website, currently claims 70-135 kbps for it, average speed:

http://www.cingular.com/midtolarge/edge »

There is something called 'EDGE Evolution' which is supposed to be released in 2006 which should double or triple those data rates. I don't know what the lag would be from release to Cingy upgrading to it nationwide, if they choose to do so.

But even if they do, by then EVDO will pretty much have the US blanketed, and at higher data rates too.
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sangyup81

Oct 15, 2005, 2:58 PM
BetterThanJake said:
But even if they do, by then EVDO will pretty much have the US blanketed, and at higher data rates too.


Verizon doesn't own a sizable chunk of the network in their map. Lots of Alltel and US Cellular. But then Cingular isn't perfect either. Some Dobson is in there.

We're really just speculating here anyway when it comes to buildout plans. Verizon and Cingular might not bring 3G to the boondocks unless they are near an interstate highway. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there are places where Verizon hasn't built 1xRTT or Cingular hasn't built GPRS yet.

Here's Cingular's alleged advantage. More countries around the world are going to build UMTS rather than EV-DO. Cingular ...
(continues)
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 3:54 PM
sangyup81 said:
BetterThanJake said:
But even if they do, by then EVDO will pretty much have the US blanketed, and at higher data rates too.


Verizon doesn't own a sizable chunk of the network in their map. Lots of Alltel and US Cellular. But then Cingular isn't perfect either. Some Dobson is in there.

We're really just speculating here anyway when it comes to buildout plans. Verizon and Cingular might not bring 3G to the boondocks unless they are near an interstate highway. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if there are places where Verizon hasn't built 1xRTT or Cingular hasn't built GPRS yet.

All quite true. 🙂

Here's Cingular's alleged advantage. More
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(continues)
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 6:39 PM
BetterThanJake said:

Here's Cingular's alleged advantage. More countries around the world are going to build UMTS rather than EV-DO. Cingular has the possibility of world data roaming without making customers change equipment. Even CDMA countries like Korea and Japan are building systems that will be compatible with UMTS.

Its kind of the same advantage they already have had for years with GSM, and it hasn't done them much good. There just aren't that many world business travelers. Also, you can just rent a phone overseas if need be, and often pay better rates than the international roaming ones.

Not saying it isn't nice, just that it hasn't been a big deal for them.

...
(continues)
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 8:12 PM
It honestly doesn't matter much if its voice roaming or data roaming... the impact remains pretty small for the same reason it's always been pretty small... not enough folks go overseas often enough and for long enough periods of time to feel like they have to have it.

VZW is coming out with solutions for that market too (that's simply being a good competitor), but it still isn't a major factor.
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trevor83

Oct 17, 2005, 9:31 AM
sangyup81 said:
BetterThanJake said:
But even if they do, by then EVDO will pretty much have the US blanketed, and at higher data rates too.


Verizon doesn't own a sizable chunk of the network in their map. Lots of Alltel and US Cellular. But then Cingular isn't perfect either. Some Dobson is in there.



Well if you're staying on topic that is an untrue statement. Since I assume we're still talking data then yes, all of Verizon's data network is owned by them except for a few tiny spots were Alltel JUST recently came on board. The 3 Alltel spots I can count are so small its not even reason to issue a new map, IMO.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 6:32 PM
BetterThanJake said:
Calling EDGE a 'high-speed network' might be a stretch, Sangy. Cingular, on their own website, currently claims 70-135 kbps for it, average speed:

http://www.cingular.com/midtolarge/edge »

There is something called 'EDGE Evolution' which is supposed to be released in 2006 which should double or triple those data rates. I don't know what the lag would be from release to Cingy upgrading to it nationwide, if they choose to do so.

But even if they do, by then EVDO will pretty much have the US blanketed, and at higher data rates too.


CDMA carriers didn't hesitate to brag about their "High Speed 1x networks". 1xRTT is definitely not high speed. All carriers who offer data are guilty...
(continues)
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 8:08 PM
I wasn't referring to what either CDMA or GSM carriers have said in the past, tropical... just what Sangy was saying. Glad you seem to agree that EDGE really isn't 'high speed'.

Far as coverage goes, it can mean area or population or both. From a population covered standpoint, why would you doubt Verizon's ability to continue to build out its EVDO network the way they've been doing? They've already got the half the country covered (140 mil ppl), and we're still in '05.
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tropicalhaven

Oct 15, 2005, 6:23 PM
BetterThanJake said:
Sorry sangy, but you completely sidestepped what I actually said. Which was:

I'm sure Cingy will be building away in '06, but so will VZW, and they will continue to offer 3G in a lot more places than Cingy. That's just a fact.


What part of the fact that VZW currently offers 3G in a lot more places, and will continue to for the near-term,, was unclear? And what does that have to with tech roadmaps?


From your older quote, I saw nothing that clarifies you were talking about near-term. It seems like you were saying VZW will *always* have EV-DO coverage in more places than Cingy will have UMTS or HSDPA.
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BetterThanJake

Oct 15, 2005, 8:01 PM
Mmm... no, that's what you read into it, I think. Sorry if I wasn't completely clear.

Logically, there will come a point where both carriers have essentially finished their 3G build-out, and will be covering probably 95% of the people that they want to cover with 3G. Its just that Verizon will reach that stage a good year before Cingy does.
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muchdrama

Oct 14, 2005, 5:35 PM
BetterThanJake said:
muchdrama said:
SForsyth01 said:
I thought UMTS/HSDPA was supposed to blow EVDO away with its data speeds. Why are they only anticipating speeds that EDGE is capable of (or at least it seems that my EDGE phone can get 220-320 kbps)?????

EVDO gets real world speeds of 300 to 600 kbps. How is this supposed to be better?

Now I'm all disappointed, not only is my market not getting it, but it isn't going to be as fast as I thought. 😢


Give the Big Orange some time to increase speeds and the size of the network.

Sure muchD, but while they're doing that, Verizon certainly won't be sitting still. They'll be increasing the siz
...
(continues)
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BetterThanJake

Oct 14, 2005, 7:32 PM
muchdrama said:
I'm sure Verizon is doing its level best to keep ahead, but Cingular will certainly catch up at some point.

I'm sure they will, MuchD. Because at some point, Verizon will have finished most of their 3G network build-out in terms of area covered (i.e. nearly everybody is covered by Verizon's 3G), which would then give Cingy a chance, a year or two later, to finish theirs.

But for now, and for the next couple of years, VZW's 3G covers one heckuva lot more ppl than Cingy's 3G does.
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Jayshmay

Oct 16, 2005, 2:39 AM
Does anybody consider Cingular's excuse of buying AT&T and needing to spend time and money to integrate the networks, in turn, take MUCH longer to launch a sizeable 3G network, anybody think that's a good excuse for taking so long???
I'm not sure if I'll ever forgive Cingular for the 12month PLUS delay! ! ! ! !

Whoever offers average speeds, not burst, of more than 1.5MBPS FIRST, that's who I go to.
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muzzin

Nov 8, 2005, 8:38 AM
I know it's been almost a month since this thread was addressed but here's my take.

I've used Cingy's EDGE stuff here in Detroit. It ran mostly at 50 to 85 k. in a horrible signal area, my office at the time it was about 15k. In a good area it peaked at 120k. This corresponded to the tech help lady at Cingulars resutls too. Needless to say I dropped the service for $70 an month.

My friend, the computer systems analyst, just signed up with VZWs high speed (just launched here) and he's averaging 400 to 700kbps. Not bad.

If Cingular's new 3G can hit that speed or higher when they launch here, I'll be in it probably the first day. I live on the southwest side of Detroit which is considered a low development area and likely we will no...
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