Deutsche Telekom Holding On To American Unit

i didn't understand that either...but what i do know is that this does show that they care about the US market...I mean why wouldn't they? they make a lot of money because of T-mobile, so even investing for the future will be good for them and good for all their clients!

Way to go Deutsche Telekom!

I think this was an excellent decision made! Plus, i make the most money selling t-mobile so i would have taken a pay cut too! 😛

yes, they do show that they care for this usa market, but i dont think they do, becuase they dont have any 3g spectrum, a 3g network, and great coverage.

here is a problem; invest 10 or so billion dollars in usa or invest 10 or so billion dollars in europe and other areas. its a hard choice. i think europe and not usa.

thoughts?

yes, for as much crap that you talk where is your cell phone carrier? where are your towers? and do you have any free phones?

i am just asking questions my friend, no need to be defensive. it is basically a debate.

give away free phones? yea one, (the 205..) but free phones doesnt exactly mean your great. lol.

we have plenty of towers.....

anyway, we arent talking about other carriers like that we are talking about the fate of tmobile usa.

nextel18 said:
yes, they do show that they care for this usa market, but i dont think they do, becuase they dont have any 3g spectrum, a 3g network, and great coverage.

here is a problem; invest 10 or so billion dollars in usa or invest 10 or so billion dollars in europe and other areas. its a hard choice. i think europe and not usa.

thoughts?

Ummm.It was reported back at the beginning of the month the T-Mobile added 3g...

https://www.phonescoop.com/news/item.php?n=1357 »

Do us favor Nextel18, STFU and go back to you're Nextel forum.

edge is 3g? hahahaha. i was talking about a true 3g technology in umts/hsdpa.

they cant do anything that deals with 3g becuase they dont have any 3g spectrum.

(tmobile usa of course)


https://www.phonescoop.com/glossary/term.php?gid=1 »

"There are several different 3G technology standards. The most prevalent is UMTS, which is based on WCDMA. (WCDMA and UMTS are often used interchangeably.) UMTS is the 3G technology of choice for most GSM carriers."

where is edge? lol.

So you always talk about "3g spectrum". How is "3g spectrum" different from "2g or 2.5g spectrum"? Have we changed frequencies? Is it scientifically impossible for 3g services to work on the spectrum currently in use?

I've got news for you...T-Mobile is using the same frequency that Sprint is using.

TH

When he speaks of 3G spectrum he isn't talking about a different frequency. He is talking about excess licenses in the current 850 and 1900 mhz bands. This excess spectrum (which T-Mobile currently does not have) is necessary to deploy and support two seperate networks. One being the continuing GSM network, the other being an entirely new UMTS network. As UMTS isn't technically an upgrade to existing GSM networks it is necessary to run them as seperate networks.

And, as you may or may not have known, UMTS is a MAJOR spectrum hog, but it uses that chunk of spectrum most efficiently compared to any other technology available today. This is why T-Mobile currently does not have 3G spectrum (i.e. not enough spectrum) to deploy their 3G UM...
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I heard that they are skipping UMTS, and going right into HSDPA. HSDPA is the UMTS upgrade.

T-Mobile is doing this? I haven't heard that yet.

Honestly, I doubt they would. I know Cingular is deploying the HSDPA upgrade in tandem with the UMTS network, but not T-Mobile. It's hard to believe that they would, considering they have had absolutely no testing of HSDPA whatsoever. Cingular is actually the only company in the world to have successfully made a voice/data call with HSDPA on the US frequency bands.

Do you have any information available on T-Mobile launching HSDPA from the get-go?

This is the idea. T-Mobile as everyone knows doesn't have enough spectrum. Next year in 2006 the FCC is suppose to be auctioning off spectrum, so T-Mobile is going to bid, with the help DT, and try to get more bandwidth. If they win they will skip UMTS, and start building the HSDPA network, which is an upgrade of UMTS, just like EDGE is the upgrade to GPRS. They want to jump straight into HSDPA since they are already behind in the 3G network game. They had article's out before on the internet that said that in the year 2007 or early 2008, they wanted to launch it if they get enough spectrum next year from the auction that the FCC is having.

They wouldn't build the HSDPA network. They still have to build a UMTS network. HSDPA is simply a software upgrade to increase the capacity and efficiency of the already existing UMTS technology.

I could understand why T-Mobile would want to do this seeing as they are so far behind the Big Three, but it isn't realistic considering they have done zero testing of either UMTS or HSDPA. As far as we know, their implementation of the technology could turn out to be a complete catastrophe.

I just don't see T-Mobile risking a major slip up over trying to rush rolling out an entire network. I think they'll take it slow and easy into the UMTS network and hold off on the HSDPA upgrade until things are settled with UMTS.

Do you have...
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HSDPA is a hardware upgrade, not a software upgrade. Same with EDGE.

Here:
http://3gnewsroom.com/3g_news/jan_05/news_5395.shtml »

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000127028035 »

http://www.mobiletracker.net/archives/2005/05/29/t-m ... »

HSDPA is not a hardware upgrade, it is a software upgrade. That goes for HSUPA (the successor to HSDPA) as well. They are both software upgrades to an existing UMTS network.

This is proven by the fact that a phone containing an HSDPA chipset does not also have to contain a UMTS chipset to be compatable with the UMTS network.

You are right about the software upgrade part, but is also needs a hardware upgrade too.

http://www.cellular-news.com/story/13291.php »

That is only true if you're upgrading from UMTS to HSDPA, which Cingular and (as you've shown) T-Mobile will not be. They are going directly to HSDPA. Cingular's equipment will already be able to handle HSDPA seeing as their contract with Lucent is for HSDPA equipment, therefore, not hardware upgrade.

But they have big brother in Europe that has tested UMTS on 1900mhz...

I understand whatever TMobile does is risky b/c they are behind but if DT actually puts weight behind then I think they can do well.

Ruff said it best... on https://www.phonescoop.com/news/discuss.php?f m=m&ff=1376&fi=387819

Why invest more money in Europe? When there are many more potential users in the US that still do not have a cell phone. In Europe they're slashing data and calling plans left and right, because they all already have the people, and are barely adding any more. Now they're just trying to keep what they have.

grrr. i never said just europe... i said take a stake in china perhaps india.

nextel18 said:
grrr. i never said just europe... i said take a stake in china perhaps india.

nextel18 said:
here is a problem; invest 10 or so billion dollars in usa or invest 10 or so billion dollars in europe and other areas. its a hard choice. i think europe and not usa.

https://www.phonescoop.com/news/discuss.php?fm=m&ff= ... »

Two threads up you specifically mention "europe". I saw no mention of "china and perhaps india" in the "and other areas" section.

Maybe I thought "other areas" could include Canada, Australia, and countries in Africa. All-inclusive words or phrases *are not* specific.

Those billions spent will be for 3g and EDGE, so they must feel its worth it to compete here instead of selling it and letting it flounder and fall apart under other managment. Something else to consider- T-Mobile is the "smallest" in terms of customers, not service.

In all honesty I think T-mobile is an excellent carrier to go with right now... if you have a quad-band phone and can pick up 850. A great majority of T-mobiles phones are tri-band 900/1800/1900 and can't even pick up 75% of Cingular's network. Get the quad-band phone, the cheap price plan from t-mobile and use all of Cingular's expansive network. Good choice for someone who is looking for new service.

T-Mobile does not have universal roaming agreements with Cingular. The few agreements that exist merely cover small areas of mutual benefit, but do NOT give T-Mobile customers access to Cingular's broad 850MHz/1900MHz network.

A simple look at T-Mobile's coverage map, which identifies roaming areas, will confirm this.

T-Mobile has decent service and cheap prices, but their phones will certainly not work wherever a Cingular phone will!

The roaming agreement part is true. However, it has been noted that some T-Mobile users can roam where only GSM 850 is available.

no those billions spent is just on 3g spectrum and 3g data alone. edge is already included in their capex right now.

perhaps... i just think with the other carriers who are bigger and who are already deploying 3g and 4g networks would be better then tmobile and steal that thunder. it is very tough but i would rather spend those extra billions on overseas operations such as india or europe where the markets arent as saturated as they are here.

nextel18 said:
it is very tough but i would rather spend those extra billions on overseas operations such as india or europe where the markets arent as saturated as they are here.

If I'm not mistaken, the U.S. is NOT the leader in mobile technology in terms of coverage or service. Let's take a look at how universal service is here vs. how universal it is in Europe. And, isn't Europe more saturated in the mobile industries than the United States?

Other factors to consider with DT:
International roaming. When a T-Mobile phone roams in Europe, it will most likely use a T-Mobile network if available, and this decreasing roaming overhead to the company. The same holds true for European subscribers comin...
(continues)

yes, the usa is not the leader in mobile technology. well i mentioned europe but what about india or china or any other markets whereas india and china there are billions of people to target? the point is tmobile usa is behind in data especially to cingular and verizon and sprint. they dont have 3g spectrum to deploy umts/hsdpa and wont deploy that until 2007 if they get that 3g spectrum next year.

the point is if they get rid of tmobile usa they can get those funds and save extra 10 billion or so dollars for getting 3g spectrum, increasing coverage, and deploying 3g data and focus on other areas in their core or even in china and india like i mentioned earlier to improve on. USA is a saturated market and with the bigger boys all have 3g...
(continues)

nextel18 said:
i am sorry, but i dont understand you.

Hey, now you know how we all feel about your posts.

I'm not sure what you're reading...but the European market is quite saturated.

i didnt point out just europe itself.. if you noticed i picked india also and i said other areas.

Yeah, I saw some literature that Alltel was going to start putting up GSM service for roamers in previous Alltel only markets in addition to continuing the former WW coverage, which it *must* do by contract.

I don't think Verizon would be able to buy Alltel because Alltel is predominantly rural, and overlaps a LOT of coverage with VZW, and there are MANY markets where they are the only two carriers (North Dakota and South Dakota, just off the top of my head.)

I had hoped to see Western Wireless go to Cingular. AT&T Wireless was WW's biggest roaming partner, and Cingular was second. It didn't take long for WW to sell out after Cingular's acquisition of ATTWS.

Yeah, it'll be an exciting couple of years.

I hadn't heard about Alltel putting up a GSM network, but I know that Western has putting up more GSM sites.

It was something I read earlier in the year, but I can't find the reference for it. The gist was that Alltel planned to expand GSM roaming beyond the former WW footprint in places where it was economically viable. I would expect that in some areas Alltel may keep GSM infrastructure it acquired from Cingular (ATTWS divestments) and other companies, such as PSC Wireless up for roamers.

Yup, the GSM network is being built within the Alltel structure. Just talked to an inside source. Probably a smart move regardless of any ownership changes. I know Western mad about 40% of their revenue from roaming.

Yeah, roaming was huge for WW. I had seen some financials, I don't remember which year, in which a majority of their revenue was from roaming, and a majority of the roaming revenue was from ATTWS.

WW was quick to sell out after Cingular acquired ATTWS...maybe they didn't want to be at Cingular's mercy...