More Complaints Filed With FCC Last Year
Why are GSM providers worse than CDMA providers?
From the data, it is clear that the cellular providers employing GSM technology have many more complaints than the cellular providers employing CDMA technology. Is there any reason for that? Does the underlying cellular technology play any part in the number of complaints? Or is it just bad management?
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it could have to do with bad managment becuase as you can see cingular/att wireless, tmobile are on the gsm network and they have higher complaints while sprint and verizon have the lowest complaints. i have experienced and is told that cdma is a little bit better in some areas then gsm as well as vice versa.
cingular/att wireless has terrible billing and sprint and verizon have terrible billing, but not as worse.
i think technology is the choice of play here, becuase cdma is better, in my opinion, then gsm.
maybe there are also more cdma roaming partners then gsm ones?
who knows, all i know is that cingular/att wireless and tmobile will not compete well vs cdma carriers.
cdma is the way to go, not gsm.
cingular/att wireless has terrible billing and sprint and verizon have terrible billing, but not as worse.
i think technology is the choice of play here, becuase cdma is better, in my opinion, then gsm.
maybe there are also more cdma roaming partners then gsm ones?
who knows, all i know is that cingular/att wireless and tmobile will not compete well vs cdma carriers.
cdma is the way to go, not gsm.
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I think that the complaints had more to do with the merger since there were so many problems there. Also AT&T as well as Cingular had several problems with local number portability. Service outages rarely are reported directly to the FCC. In my area GSM is far superior to CDMA in terms of dropped calls and coverage, but that is probably because Alltel and US cellular are in this area and not Verizon, When I used Alltel I got "All circuits are currently busy" and dropped calls all of the time, with Cingular I have only had 1 dropped call in over a year and thats because I was in a stair well surrounded by concrete. Cingulars complaints were probably mostly due to their bad customer service and billing mistakes ( I have only called customer se...
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well, of course. whenever you have a merger of that magnitude coming together you will always have problems. when i ment by roaming partners thats what i ment with verizon's affiliates and other cdma carriers vs gsm and their affiliates.
but, when the number portablity facts came out, i belive it wasnt such a big deal. i think its becuase there are problems with billing issues and coverage issues. if you saw my post on the whole 2004 and q4 of 2004 complaints from the providers you can see the majority was becuase of service related problems.
isnt it funny? carriers spend billions trying to upgrade their billing and network coverage and people are still complaining.
i had both gsm and cdma providers, and i would have to see in my ...
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but, when the number portablity facts came out, i belive it wasnt such a big deal. i think its becuase there are problems with billing issues and coverage issues. if you saw my post on the whole 2004 and q4 of 2004 complaints from the providers you can see the majority was becuase of service related problems.
isnt it funny? carriers spend billions trying to upgrade their billing and network coverage and people are still complaining.
i had both gsm and cdma providers, and i would have to see in my ...
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How about this:
Cingular(AT&T) have the largest subscriber base. Therefore they will receive the most complaints. Statistics...
Cingular(AT&T) have the largest subscriber base. Therefore they will receive the most complaints. Statistics...
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they are basing this % off of per milliion Customers, so if company A only has 1 million Cust and they have 200 complaints, where as company B has 10 million Cust but has 2,000 they would both have they same complaint %, so when speaking of % (percentage) raw volume does not play into the picture
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but whats your point? most of it was becuase of the merger not by cingular's individual business.
can i ask what your point it please? (not being rude)
becuase i understand they have the highest and largest but there should be no excuses. verizon has the 2nd highiest and look at their complaints- not that much.
so whats your point pleasE?
can i ask what your point it please? (not being rude)
becuase i understand they have the highest and largest but there should be no excuses. verizon has the 2nd highiest and look at their complaints- not that much.
so whats your point pleasE?
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See now, to say they aren't going to stay on top at the current point is just ridiculous. I would at least wait untill the numbers show Verizon is adding more customers per quarter then Cingular. Then talk all you want.
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with cingular's problems that they are facing with the complaints as well as with the minor ditch that happened to a few areas. that will start to drive customers crazy and CHURN to another carrier. cingular/att wireless will divest 8k towers from its network and that will cause more problems. i dont think cingular will stay number 1 for a long time against verizon. not a chance.
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They have to divest towers in areas where they have too many and would have created a monopoly. Losing those towers will not effect them at all.
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no i am not talking about those divestitures that the fcc/ftc/doj made them do. i am talking about additional ones. they are going to take down another 8k nationwide.
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Are talking about the areas where the "Blue" and "Orange" towers overlap and they are going to move the excess to areas of greater need. Thus, strengthening their coverage?
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it might, but i doubt it. it takes a long time to take them down then put them right up. so far cingular has been doing everything wrong when it comes to merging with a provider. meaning, customer care is still terrible, complaints are wayy to high, billing is terrible and other things.
coverage wont improve that much especially if it takes time to do that and again, they have been doing a bad job as it is.
oh yea, by the way, they had a problem with a computer system and 3 areas were down. imagine if that happened others places and more and longer times. more complaints= churn= by revenue and subscribers.
cingular needs to fix their act very quickly.
coverage wont improve that much especially if it takes time to do that and again, they have been doing a bad job as it is.
oh yea, by the way, they had a problem with a computer system and 3 areas were down. imagine if that happened others places and more and longer times. more complaints= churn= by revenue and subscribers.
cingular needs to fix their act very quickly.
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These are all assumptions. There is no factual evidence to support your statements. All we know for a fact is they have the highest ammount of complaints for the 4th quarter. You have to understand. A lot of things had to change with the merger. Many people will not understand, and they will complain. I live close to a former AWS call center and go to school with many people that work there. They get a lot of people that think they are right no matter how wrong they are. It's ridiculous what people will say. The biggest problem with the merger is the plans. The AWS plans were dirt cheap. That's what they had to do. They were on their way out. The new Cingular plans are a lot more expensive than those AWS plans, but comparable to the rest of ...
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no facts? hmm terrible billing terrible customer care. churn says customer care and terrible billing becuase of churn. what about complaints? all time high and bigger then the other carriers, which shows that a lack of service and billing issues. thus; billing and customer care problems, as well as coverage issues.
not just for the 4th quarter. for the full year 2004.
not just for the 4th quarter. for the full year 2004.
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nextel18 said:
no facts? hmm terrible billing terrible customer care. churn says customer care and terrible billing becuase of churn. what about complaints? all time high and bigger then the other carriers, which shows that a lack of service and billing issues. thus; billing and customer care problems, as well as coverage issues.
not just for the 4th quarter. for the full year 2004.
The fact their churn is because of customer care and their billing is total speculation on your part. You no proof to back it up. Do YOU know what the complaints were about??? NO! So don't sit here and say you do! Quit cluttering these forums with your speculation. You're almost as bad as that Gunny guy.
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"The fact their churn is because of customer care and their billing is total speculation on your part. You no proof to back it up. "
of course i do. churn is how many people LEAVE your company and how many people come on board. cingular's churn i belive is 2.6 or 2.8 percent which means a lot of people are leaving. people leave becuase of billing issues and coverage issues as well as a lack of customer care. cingular's churn is way too high for this industry, thus; that is proof.
of course i do. churn is how many people LEAVE your company and how many people come on board. cingular's churn i belive is 2.6 or 2.8 percent which means a lot of people are leaving. people leave becuase of billing issues and coverage issues as well as a lack of customer care. cingular's churn is way too high for this industry, thus; that is proof.
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nextel18 said:
"The fact their churn is because of customer care and their billing is total speculation on your part. You no proof to back it up. "
of course i do. churn is how many people LEAVE your company and how many people come on board. cingular's churn i belive is 2.6 or 2.8 percent which means a lot of people are leaving. people leave becuase of billing issues and coverage issues as well as a lack of customer care. cingular's churn is way too high for this industry, thus; that is proof.
Gee.... here we go again.
Last year Verizon's churn was 2.8% and Nextel's was even higher....
So Cingular hits that same number and all of a sudden "a lot of people are leaving"?
🙄
Cingular also ga...
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"Last year Verizon's churn was 2.8% and Nextel's was even higher....
So Cingular hits that same number and all of a sudden "a lot of people are leaving"?"
WRONG!!! cingular's churn was 2.8 percent while nextel's churn was 1.6 percent. so cingular's churn is better? thats interesting. the lower the churn is better my friend.
higher churn equals more people leaving then coming in.
"Cingular also gained more customers in one quarter than any carrier in the history of wireless... so I guess those 2 million people came from somewhere(verizon, nextel)."
they also got the whole 22 million subscribers for att wireless as well.
it wouldnt have come from verizon, and nextel becuase their churn was a lot better better over the quarte...
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So Cingular hits that same number and all of a sudden "a lot of people are leaving"?"
WRONG!!! cingular's churn was 2.8 percent while nextel's churn was 1.6 percent. so cingular's churn is better? thats interesting. the lower the churn is better my friend.
higher churn equals more people leaving then coming in.
"Cingular also gained more customers in one quarter than any carrier in the history of wireless... so I guess those 2 million people came from somewhere(verizon, nextel)."
they also got the whole 22 million subscribers for att wireless as well.
it wouldnt have come from verizon, and nextel becuase their churn was a lot better better over the quarte...
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nextel18 said:...
"Last year Verizon's churn was 2.8% and Nextel's was even higher....
So Cingular hits that same number and all of a sudden "a lot of people are leaving"?"
WRONG!!! cingular's churn was 2.8 percent while nextel's churn was 1.6 percent. so cingular's churn is better? thats interesting. the lower the churn is better my friend.
higher churn equals more people leaving then coming in.
"Cingular also gained more customers in one quarter than any carrier in the history of wireless... so I guess those 2 million people came from somewhere(verizon, nextel)."
they also got the whole 22 million subscribers for att wireless as well.
it wouldnt have come from verizon, and nextel becuase their churn was
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Yes, you are wrong. Both Nextel and Verizon had churn rates in recent quarters of under 2%, FAR below cingulars.
Would you like a link?
"Nextel's rate in the third quarter was 1.5%. Verizon was a close second, with 1.7%, with Sprint and Cingular picking up the rear with churn rates of 2.7% and 2.8% respectively"
http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2004/122004-sprint-next ... »
Would you like a link?
"Nextel's rate in the third quarter was 1.5%. Verizon was a close second, with 1.7%, with Sprint and Cingular picking up the rear with churn rates of 2.7% and 2.8% respectively"
http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2004/122004-sprint-next ... »
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you are wrong....
churn for 2004
cingular= 2.8 percent
verizon= 1.5 percent
nextel= 1.6 percent
thus; nextel is lower then cingular and verizon is lower than cingular and nextel.
thus; you are wrong.
churn for 2004
cingular= 2.8 percent
verizon= 1.5 percent
nextel= 1.6 percent
thus; nextel is lower then cingular and verizon is lower than cingular and nextel.
thus; you are wrong.
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nextel18 said:
you are wrong....
churn for 2004
cingular= 2.8 percent
verizon= 1.5 percent
nextel= 1.6 percent
thus; nextel is lower then cingular and verizon is lower than cingular and nextel.
thus; you are wrong.
What were those numbers 1 year ago?
More specifically what were the numbers ending 2003?
That's the year ago I was talking about...
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morning.. those are the numbers ended in 2004.
do you want the end of 2003 too?
ok let me try to find them for you..
churn....
cingular= 2.7%
verizon= 1.8%
nextel= 1.6%
sources= http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=6 3347&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=496716&
sources= http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stori es.pl?ACCT=683924&TICK=CINGUL04&STORY=/www/st ory/01-21-2004/0002093726&EDATE=Jan+21,+2004
sources= http://news.vzw.com/news/2004/01/pr2004-01-29 .html
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so again, it looks like nextel, and verizon are better then cingular with churn.
nextel= 1.6
verizon= 1.8
cingular= 2.7
do you want the end of 2003 too?
ok let me try to find them for you..
churn....
cingular= 2.7%
verizon= 1.8%
nextel= 1.6%
sources= http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=6 3347&p=irol-newsArticle&t=Regular&id=496716&
sources= http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stori es.pl?ACCT=683924&TICK=CINGUL04&STORY=/www/st ory/01-21-2004/0002093726&EDATE=Jan+21,+2004
sources= http://news.vzw.com/news/2004/01/pr2004-01-29 .html
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so again, it looks like nextel, and verizon are better then cingular with churn.
nextel= 1.6
verizon= 1.8
cingular= 2.7
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You still haven't proved that people leave because of poor customer care and billing. That you will never be able to prove. So keep the speculation flowing.
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its about churn, my friend. churn is comprised of people leaving the carrier for any reason. it includes lack of service, billing and customer care problems. its common sense my friend.
read those it says it right in there.
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:T28rSftIAaMJ:ww ... »
http://wirelessreview.com/mag/wireless_churn_alert/ »
http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/eac/knowled ... »
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:sLXVesFUFqUJ:ww ... »
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read those it says it right in there.
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:T28rSftIAaMJ:ww ... »
http://wirelessreview.com/mag/wireless_churn_alert/ »
http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/eac/knowled ... »
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:sLXVesFUFqUJ:ww ... »
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I agree as well, the complaints mostly are billing issues than technology. My personal experience with TDMA Cingular and Tmobile were very terrible. My calls weren't clear and the coverage was unbearable. I'm using Sprint now, I havent had any problems at all. Just my two cents...
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when did Tmobile use TDMA Serv?!? because I think your 2 cents must be foreign currency
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I said TDMA Cinguar!!!! Tmobile is straight GSM. Either way, I encountered similar problems. If I'm not mistaken, GSM is a spinoff of TDMA.
The Euro is stronger than the U.S. Dollar, that's my foreign currency 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
The Euro is stronger than the U.S. Dollar, that's my foreign currency 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
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you said "
I agree as well, the complaints mostly are billing issues than technology. My personal experience with TDMA Cingular and Tmobile were very terrible." and by my perception of that since you grouped 2 carriers together without specifying is that you though tmobile was TDMA, so be more specific, or don't group carriers together
I agree as well, the complaints mostly are billing issues than technology. My personal experience with TDMA Cingular and Tmobile were very terrible." and by my perception of that since you grouped 2 carriers together without specifying is that you though tmobile was TDMA, so be more specific, or don't group carriers together
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I apologize if you thought that I said Tmobile used TDMA. I thought it was obvious what I meant, since Cingular used TDMA and Tmobile came out GSM, but it seems that your the only one on this message board who has a problem with that sentence. Is someone upset that I like CDMA over GSM? I would never trash talk other providers, I just personally don't like Tmobile and Cingular and Sprint is the only company I have not had any billing or service issues with, or any problems for that matter.
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No problem, apology accepted, and I don't care if you like CDMA over GSM, heck I don't care if you (or anybody else) like 2 tin cans w/ string over GSM or CDMA, In other words I don't care what anybody thinks.... its your opinion and your entitled to it, don't let anybody tell you other wise
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I'm very surprise at your response. It's very polite and I wish there were more posters such as yourself instead of reading muchdrama and gunny whine who's got better service provider 😉
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exactly my point. good point. tdma, and gsm arent that great when you compare it vs cdma.
same with me. i had tdma and gsm with cingulr and att wireless and it was terrible. i had sprint and it was great, i just didnt like their customer service so i left. but thats ok. (not after a wonderful 3 years with sprint though)
thanks for your 2 cents. was that a donation? lol
same with me. i had tdma and gsm with cingulr and att wireless and it was terrible. i had sprint and it was great, i just didnt like their customer service so i left. but thats ok. (not after a wonderful 3 years with sprint though)
thanks for your 2 cents. was that a donation? lol
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Personally, I think it all depends on where you are at. I had Sprint for 5 years before I switched to Cingular. When i first subscribed to Sprint, I lived in Junction City, KS. I never had a problem and NEVER called in to customer service except to get a number change. Thats right, I NEVER called CS in five whole years to complain because I had nothing to complain about, until I moved!!! I moved to Kissimmee, FL. Where I currently live, my reception with Sprint was HORRIBLE. My wife, who had Tmobile at the time, had better reception inside and around my home. I called CS and they couldn't do anything for me except give me new downloads for towers or something like that. Tried the download and still nothing. Since I was still on contract and ...
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thanks for that wonderful opinion. i am suprised that you said tmobile works better then sprint in doors since both of the companies use 1.9ghz spectrum. usually they would work equally as bad in doors. (thats no joke becuase its not that great in doors)
but thank you for your opinion.
very true it does matter where you live, but nationwide i belive cdma is better then gsm.
just my opinion.
but thank you for your opinion.
very true it does matter where you live, but nationwide i belive cdma is better then gsm.
just my opinion.
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right but many gsm providers are starting to go away from gsm and go towards wcdma/umts/hsdpa.
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yes ALL GSM providers are switching. Making UTMS/WCDMA the new worldwide standard. It's all about the evolution of the technology. GSM was never meant to last forever.
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I can vouch that CDMA in the Orlando area is infierior to GSM. I had Verizon, and it wasn't that bad outdoors. The minute you step indoors it starts to break up, and i drop calls left and right. I then got a job with AT&T Wireless, and got my employee account. I now have service in my house and it's wonderful! I also get service in the grocery store I work at. Verizon didn't do anything wrong. They just had crappy sevice, and so does Sprint. I have serveral friends on Sprint and can't wait to leave.
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I think it is because, for example, when ATTWS moved to the GSM network they had a very solid TDMA network up and running. People got so excited about GSM they thought they'd try it out and move to it, only to find out it was still in its infincy. They got terrible coverage and dropped calls and the such, so they had a bad taste in their mouths. Just an example, but you can imagine it happening to all companies in the early GSM times. Those people who decided to be the beta testers of a new network found out the hard way that you shouldn't fix what isn't broken (stay with what you have if it is working for you).
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Let's not jump to any conclusions yet. While the GSM footprint is a bit more fragile than the CDMA footprint it is still very servicable in populated areas.
ATTWS/Cingular and T-Mobile are the only major GSM providers in the country. so if they struggle it could appear to be technology related. I doubt it.
GSM has nothing to do with the billing systems, nor does it have anything to do with the human contact systems. Let's face it ATTWS had only two options: get bought or begin chapter 11 reorganization. Cingular has never been known as a great customer service organization. With that said we can move on.
It would be interesting to know how many comolaints were Cingular and how many were ATTWS. We are talking over 14,000 complaints to th...
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ATTWS/Cingular and T-Mobile are the only major GSM providers in the country. so if they struggle it could appear to be technology related. I doubt it.
GSM has nothing to do with the billing systems, nor does it have anything to do with the human contact systems. Let's face it ATTWS had only two options: get bought or begin chapter 11 reorganization. Cingular has never been known as a great customer service organization. With that said we can move on.
It would be interesting to know how many comolaints were Cingular and how many were ATTWS. We are talking over 14,000 complaints to th...
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I wonder if the GSM troubles stem partially from lack of roaming? Perhaps some customers didn't have that fact properly explained to them- I could see someone getting really pissed off if they're traveling in rural places with no GSM service and try to use their phone for 911 or something and it doesn't work, after hearing all about Cingular's 'no roaming' plans. 😕
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That would be more aimed at T-Mobile who cannot roam on 800MHZ.
Cingular's issue stems from their own lack of response to customer concerns. From what I have read in this site they are circling the wagons and calling their customers idiots, and unreasonable people. They also are claiming special privilege for Verizon.
They just don't get it. Verizon is far superior to them in customer care and so they generate fewer complaints to regulatory bodies. End of story.
It may have little to do with network or technology, although I doubt it because the carriers with the best networks had fewest complaints. (USCC, Verizon, Alltel) It has more to do with the human interraction between customer and company representative.
Cingular's issue stems from their own lack of response to customer concerns. From what I have read in this site they are circling the wagons and calling their customers idiots, and unreasonable people. They also are claiming special privilege for Verizon.
They just don't get it. Verizon is far superior to them in customer care and so they generate fewer complaints to regulatory bodies. End of story.
It may have little to do with network or technology, although I doubt it because the carriers with the best networks had fewest complaints. (USCC, Verizon, Alltel) It has more to do with the human interraction between customer and company representative.
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SPCSVZWJeff said:...
That would be more aimed at T-Mobile who cannot roam on 800MHZ.
Cingular's issue stems from their own lack of response to customer concerns. From what I have read in this site they are circling the wagons and calling their customers idiots, and unreasonable people. They also are claiming special privilege for Verizon.
They just don't get it. Verizon is far superior to them in customer care and so they generate fewer complaints to regulatory bodies. End of story.
It may have little to do with network or technology, although I doubt it because the carriers with the best networks had fewest complaints. (USCC, Verizon, Alltel) It has more to do with the human interraction between customer and company r
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PhoenixAshes said:
Oh and since you like JD powers so much.... why is Tmobile numero uno with them but at the bottom according to the Consumer's Union numbers? Who is WRONG? They can't BOTH be right. The logical conclusion is that they are ALL wrong.
First off, T-mobile wasn't at the bottom according to the Consumers Union numbers- cingular was. T-Mobile was closer to middle of the pack:
http://cdn.consumerreports.org/static/0503cell0.html »
Second off, its not logical to assume that all measures of consumer satisfaction are wrong just because they dont 100% agree with each other. Its more logical to assume that they measure different things, or measure in slightly different ways.
And it'd be even m...
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Naw it's true. Most all highly publicised surveys are at least slightly jaded. If you think about it. People don't work to make those survey's for free. Someone pays them to take the survey. Just think about.
As for JD Power & Retarded People....
If you notice who wins the adwards for best vehicles is always the most recently designed vehicle. Not necessarily the best. It's ALWAYS the most recent redesign. I will never go by anything they say.
As for JD Power & Retarded People....
If you notice who wins the adwards for best vehicles is always the most recently designed vehicle. Not necessarily the best. It's ALWAYS the most recent redesign. I will never go by anything they say.
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But can you discount them completely? They are actually pushing for a GSM/UMTS only industry in the USA. Then that should bode well for you folks. I'm not saying by any means that this is the end for you guys over there at Cingular, Let's wait and see if it is merely buyout confusion or primarily ATTWS failures. These are actually FCC numbers and not CU's interpretation. The headline and some of the body of the article is theirs, but not the data itself. If it was my company I would look for the weak spots and see why they exist and overcome them.
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If you had read some of my other posts you would have seen that I am actually in the wait and see mode when it comes to these numbers. The posts I read are from CSR's and salespeople, the people who actually have contact with the customers.
Don't jump to conclusions I have not made. I don't believe for a minute that the senior management at Cingular is happy about these numbers. I am very sure there will be something done to fix the problem if there is indeed still a problem. Remember the numbers are from a pre-buyout time as well as post- buyout.
Don't jump to conclusions I have not made. I don't believe for a minute that the senior management at Cingular is happy about these numbers. I am very sure there will be something done to fix the problem if there is indeed still a problem. Remember the numbers are from a pre-buyout time as well as post- buyout.
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Tmobile is GSM and we have one of the lowest complaints margins, I saw 2 GSM carriers w/ high complaints... I saw 2 Fords and one Chevy busted down on the side of the road today when coming to work does this mean American cars are not up to the build quality of imported cars?
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Actually, it is fact that the engineering and build quality of most American cars isn't up to par with foreign cars.
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I agree (love Mistu's) but that is a genral stat, take Scion's, hyndia, or any of the other disposable cars, and then compare it to a 57 chevy that still runs w/ orig engine, but on the flip side of the coin just compare ford escort to anything (except Renault Le car) else and it will look like the best built thing in the world
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What's wrong with Scion? Hyundai, Kia, Daewoo are in the same **** league, but Scion is a subsidiary of Toyota and as far as I'm concerned, Toyota makes quality cars.
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😛 I like how we went from phone technology and billing to scions and chevys 😛
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This forum is closed.
