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BlackBerry 10 Delayed Until 2013

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They used to be huge!

cweiss

Jun 28, 2012, 8:45 PM
I can't believe how quickly they became nothing in the wireless world. I realize they still have customers, but unless you already have a Blackberry who would even consider them now??
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marufio

Jun 28, 2012, 8:50 PM
No one even cricket has the iPhone 4s. I used to see them with Blackberrys but no more.
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T Bone

Jun 28, 2012, 10:01 PM
Not everything is bleak, so far in 2012, there actually has been an INCREASE in subscribers....and in 2011 they sold 50 million handsets...
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HawkeyeOC

Jun 29, 2012, 12:20 AM
T Bone said:
Not everything is bleak, so far in 2012, there actually has been an INCREASE in subscribers....and in 2011 they sold 50 million handsets...


An INCREASE everywhere except for the US which is why people here think they are done.
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 1:46 AM
How easy it is ti forget that it's a global marketand RIM is not even an American company.
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muchdrama

Jun 29, 2012, 3:21 AM
T Bone said:
How easy it is ti forget that it's a global marketand RIM is not even an American company.


And how easy it is for the uninformed kiddies on these forums to proclaim RIM dead.

RIM is HUGE. You make a good point.
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Slammer

Jun 29, 2012, 7:44 AM
----" And how easy it is for the uninformed kiddies on these forums to proclaim RIM dead."----

This comment brings to light that it is indeed the "Kiddies" of 3-4 years ago that "Just had to have a Blackberry" like all their classmates.

Now that the iPhone has become the new Blackberry amoungst these kiddies, it is so easy to dismiss their old love while forgetting how cool they were. Functionality, power and durability of the Blackberry was never the priority for kids.

John B.
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 8:45 AM
I'm not sure that the iPhone is the 'in' thing now anymore...I think it is Android....right now it seems the phone everyone wants is the Galaxy S III....which is why all the carriers are short of supply of that device and many orders are back ordered.....
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marufio

Jun 29, 2012, 10:17 AM
With the GS3 as the new hot phone it pushes all other phones down the ladder. This includes the IPhone4s to Iphone4 and finally the bottom the 3GS. So where does that leave blackberry? It doesn't leave them any room, but I'm sure they know that. From now till iPhone 5 everyone will give up on their blackberrys. RIMs strategy is to off sell parts of the company within that timeframe.
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 10:37 AM
I don't know why everyone is calling the next iPhone 'the next iPhone 5' when it will be the 6th generation device, not the fifth...

Very bizarre....
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HawkeyeOC

Jun 29, 2012, 2:27 PM
T Bone said:
I'm not sure that the iPhone is the 'in' thing now anymore...I think it is Android....right now it seems the phone everyone wants is the Galaxy S III....which is why all the carriers are short of supply of that device and many orders are back ordered.....


Apple is incredible and almost downright ruthless in securing limited materials, manufacturing capacity and even air space for shipping its products. I know this can affect the competition. I wonder if thats part of the issue. SAmsung knows the Galaxy line is popular.
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 3:29 PM
Well....I assume that the 'Galaxy S' line must be seeing very good sales, and be very successful, because you don't go all the way to the third generation with a device brand, and introduce new products including creating new products like the Nexus S, the Galaxy Tab, the Galaxy Nexus, and the Galaxy Note with the 'Galaxy' branding on it if it isn't a fairly successful product line.
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muchdrama

Jun 29, 2012, 2:30 PM
T Bone said:
I'm not sure that the iPhone is the 'in' thing now anymore...I think it is Android....right now it seems the phone everyone wants is the Galaxy S III....which is why all the carriers are short of supply of that device and many orders are back ordered.....


Believe me--the iPhone is still the 'it' device.
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 3:26 PM
Then why are sales stagnating? Something like 80% of all iPhones are sold as upgrades to people who already have an iPhone....the days when the iPhone market was rapidly growing are over....the iPhone market has reached its peak....Apple now has to make sure that it stays at that peak, rather than plummeting.
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muchdrama

Jun 29, 2012, 3:33 PM
T Bone said:
Then why are sales stagnating? Something like 80% of all iPhones are sold as upgrades to people who already have an iPhone....the days when the iPhone market was rapidly growing are over....the iPhone market has reached its peak....Apple now has to make sure that it stays at that peak, rather than plummeting.


They are? Prove it. Apple certainly isn't hurting atop its billions of dollars. The iPhone rules the roost--even if I DO prefer Android.
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 4:10 PM
Apple rules the roost?

Samsung is the world's biggest phone manufacturer by a wide margin over Apple....and Android phones have more than 50% market share and outsell the iPhone by a margin of 5-3.....

And iPhone has never been #1 in sales....before Android took over the #1 spot the previous leader was Symbian....the iPhone currently has around 30% market share...with Windows Phone and Blackberry, and the handful of webOS, Windows Mobile and Symbian handsets that are still operational making up the remainder of the remaining 20%

Apple has never made its name on being the most popular brand, or having the highest sales.... they have always focused, rather, on having the highest profit margins...
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muchdrama

Jun 29, 2012, 6:32 PM
T Bone said:
they have always focused, rather, on having the highest profit margins...


That's what I meant. The guy with the biggest profit is always the winner.
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muchdrama

Jun 29, 2012, 2:30 PM
Slammer said:
----" And how easy it is for the uninformed kiddies on these forums to proclaim RIM dead."----

This comment brings to light that it is indeed the "Kiddies" of 3-4 years ago that "Just had to have a Blackberry" like all their classmates.

Now that the iPhone has become the new Blackberry amoungst these kiddies, it is so easy to dismiss their old love while forgetting how cool they were. Functionality, power and durability of the Blackberry was never the priority for kids.

John B.


...and then there's posters like you--spreading rational thought and discourse. ;)
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Rich Brome

Jun 29, 2012, 9:38 AM
* But that's the wrong end of the curve. If the typical phone ownership is two years, that increase is counting growth from one and two years ago. In the past year, new device sales have absolutely plummeted. At the current rate of decline - which has been sustained for two quarters now - they will be selling ZERO devices quarterly by the end of the year! (That's not a realistic projection, but it shows how sharp the decline has been in the last six months.)
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 10:14 AM
There has been a decline not because people are deserting the platform but because Blackberry enthusiasts, such as myself, are holding off on upgrades until Blackberry 10 is released....
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Rich Brome

Jun 29, 2012, 10:22 AM
I'm sure there are quite a few people in your boat. But there are also plenty of people jumping ship. RIM's market share is dropping like a stone, especially in the all-important US market. Their growing subscriber base is in less mature markets, where smartphone ownership in general is exploding, and RIM is just tagging along.
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 10:35 AM
Look, I don't have any evidence, I'm not a market research professional....what I can tell you is that not just I, but literally every Blackberry person I know (and since I work in the enterprise, so there are still a lot of us) is currently eligible for an upgrade and is purposely not doing so because even though the current Blackberry 7 devices don't have a future, as they can't be upgraded to the next platform, and are holding out as long as we can for Blackberry 10's.....

Now, we are going to have to decide whether we are going to continue to wait....or bite the bullet and buy a Blackberry 7 device....

I don't really care about market share...and I think focus on market share completely misses the point....and is a failure of Busin...
(continues)
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Rich Brome

Jun 29, 2012, 10:56 AM
That was true until this quarter. Now RIM is deeply in the red. They are no longer profitable. Their current business is unsustainable, therefore their investors are demanding drastic measures, as in a fire sale of the company. The market (Wall Street, that is) simply doesn't have the patience to wait a full year for BB10 to impact the bottom line.

BlackBerry still has its loyalists, of course. But RIM's business has always depended on enterprises that require their employees to carry BlackBerrys. The people that make those decisions are increasingly moving away from BB. Android and iOS now have the kind of security and device-management features that such enterprises require. Enough employees - including upper management - are begging to...
(continues)
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HawkeyeOC

Jun 29, 2012, 3:49 PM
In reading some of Wall Streets views, I know they have written RIM off. It also looks like those same analysts aren't expecting any potential buyers in the near term either.

I have also read that they will have the cash on hand to bring BB10 to market and thats what management intends on doing at this point.
Palm burned through all their cash getting WebOS to market and then couldn't do anything. I don't think thats the case here.
I don't think RIM has any choice but to push forward. There is a large patent portfolio to shed if needed. If BB10 doesn't meet sales expectations after its introduced there would be a firesale.
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 4:17 PM
Another thing to keep in mind, when talking about Wall Street analysts and their predictions for RIM is that these are the same 'experts' who told everyone to buy Enron stock right up until the moment the company went bankrupt.....seriouslly...look it up...all the major Wall Streer firms listed Enron as 'buy' up until about two weeks before it collapsed....

These are the same experts who said,from about 2004 until the housing bubble burst in late 2008 'invest in the housing market, it is growing exponentially and the growth will never stop ever'

Wall Street analysts don't know any more than the rest of us, it's all guess work....
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HawkeyeOC

Jun 29, 2012, 4:45 PM
It is a guessing game with Wall Street. If they can drive that stock price (down almost 20% today) below actual value of the company...they will be buying in a hurry Laughing

And yes, for those reading this RIM isn't a "worthless" company. They are sitting on a rather large patent portfolio among other things. even if Rim never produces another handset, it has value. Rolling Eyes
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 5:27 PM
Well, some peole can accurately predict the stock market, people like Warren Buffet are proof of that....but the fact that are very few people like Warren Buffet is proof of how rare that talent is....

As for me...I'm going to go with my gut....RIM makes good products, so I refuse to believe that they are 'done'....I refuse to believe that it is simply completely hopeless for someone who makes good products and has a few good ideas....RIM isn't a company like Enron, or the tech bubble of the late, that exploded in value for no reason, or even like Palm, which was badly managed from day one....
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Jarahawk

Jun 30, 2012, 8:52 PM
I'm going to start saving fifty per month for my next Blackberry. I'll have to pay full retail with Verizon, but I am missing my Tour already. This next year with the Rezound will be a purgatory of sorts. I hope RIM survives long enough to place a BB10 handset WITH a physical QWERTY in my hands. I figure it will be $650
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T Bone

Jun 30, 2012, 9:18 PM
You have to pay full retail? Umm...why?
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Slammer

Jul 3, 2012, 7:58 AM
TBone,

Your concerns are not alone. One of the largest problems with corporations, is that they are so dependant on shareholders. Shareholders that know very little of the business. They are only interested in one thing; financial returns. They often put the squeeze on the corporations to make decisions not necessarily prudent to what the company feels is best.

This concern has been brought up at corporate level for some time now. The goal is to give much more control to CEOs and management for better decision making. While shareholders have always and currently have the choice to either trust the company or move on, under a new plan, shareholders would be forced to know more about the industry they are investing in before making dema...
(continues)
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 6:57 PM
I'm not the only one who thinks RIM's problems are that everyone is waiting for Blackberry 10....

Announcing a new device before it is ready, causing everybody to lose interest in what is already on the market and sales to drop is a well known phenomenon and even has a name....the Osborne Effect

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/rims-osborne-effect-co ... »
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HawkeyeOC

Jun 29, 2012, 7:25 PM
I didn't realize it had a name.
Apple is much smarter than I realized regarding this. They Don't make this mistake. They don't typically announce anything very early. Your left guessing at product cycles.
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T Bone

Jun 29, 2012, 7:55 PM
The product cycles tend to be fairly consistent....what they do well is that they never announce a product until it is ready to ship....the moment they announce a new product you know it will be available for pre-order within a week and will be in stores within 3 weeks....they never make these 'eventually sometime in the next 50 years we are going to release such and such...'

As for RIM, I know why they jumped the gun with the announcement...it was to reassure investors, they know that everyone says 'Blackberries are out of date' so they wanted to reassure investors that 'we are aware of the problem and are working on it'......and that would be fine, except that the message that CUSTOMERS got was 'the devices that are currently in stores?...
(continues)
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HawkeyeOC

Jun 29, 2012, 8:47 PM
Apple has had some trouble this year with consistency, but its more likely because of intel. iMacs and Mini's were expected recently. The MacPro desktop was botched. 2 years with no update to server class intel chips that are available now. Not a peep from apple until enough pressure was put on them to make a rare statement that they will have one out in 2013.

Lots of defections for the crowd that needs heavy duty computing power to dell and HP. The Osborne effect if you wait too long could have issues too I guess.

Difficult balance
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